This is a discussion on My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Excellent point, DaveJay ....
Excellent point, DaveJay.
Arkansas Concealed Carry Instructor #12-751
If guns kill people, then:
Pincels miss spel werds;
Cars make people drive drunk;
And spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat.
So this discussion derailed pretty hard. I wasn't asking if you carry or not or if you agree with it or not or the semantics of the constitution. I was trying to find someones valid reasoning in the context I illustrated that the woman should not been allowed to defend herself.
Also I illustrated that the argument of "drinking and driving is the same as carrying and drinking" as a moot point and somehow no one has been able to address that.
So this leads me to believe that my arguements aren't arguments at all due to no one directly disagreeing or providing examples against my statements.....
I don't think anyone is saying you don't have the right to defend yourself. But here's the issue: At some point your right to defend yourself from a perceived threat, and everyone else's right to not be shot by you when you fire on that threat cross.This is why I carry regardless of going out to the bar or drinking with friends. I don't think simply because people like to partake in normal and sociable activities that they shouldn't be permitted to defend themselves.
It's one thing if you do it sober. It's another if you've been drinking.
You also imply, that you carrying a gun is the only means of defending your self. I think you have a responsibility to evaluate your risk, and mitigate it to your level of comfort in a way that doesn't unnecessarily increase everyone elses. In my opinion, there are other ways to do that than carrying and drinking. e.g. If you know you plan to drink with friends, do it in a group where you know a few will be carrying and not drinking. Travel to and from as a group. Hind sight being 20/20, this girl should have slept it off on her friend's couch instead of making the trip home in the dark, alone.
My point is, there are allot of ways to mitigate risk. IMO adding alcohol to carrying does the opposite.
AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig
if you drink more than you should you cant defend yourself effectively as you will be impaired...regardless of how good a drinker you are...
In this girls case obviously what she had on her and her own knowledge was not enough to save her life. Maybe if she had OC or something similar she could have gotten away, maybe if she had both OC and a gun the OC may have proven ineffective and a gun may have been necessary to save her life.
BGs don't politely inform you when, where, or how they are going to attack you believe it or not, and suggesting that someone should have to alter there lifestyle based on fear is not the kind of America I was raised in.
The following is common sense (which is probably why the government can't "get it") It is possible to be in a car and not be driving. It is possible to be in a bar and not be drinking. However, where I live it is illegal to carry in places that serve alcohol (including most "sit down" restaurants) I don't drink and I don't waste my time or money in bars (sorry to those of you that do) but I sure would like to be allowed to carry in restaurants.
What about if your AT HOME, minding your own business, having some alcoholic beverages, and some thugs decide that today is the day they B and E your house. Gonna sit there and give them carte blanche, dial 911 and sit back and hope for the best?
I didn't think so. All you naysayers are gonna grab your firearms and stop the knuckledraggers, aren't you?
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
M&Pc .357sig, 2340Sigpro .357sig
If you have your keys in your pocket, yea, you may not be driving right at that exact moment but if you thought you might have to jump in your car at a moments notice and haul a#$ someplace or die, would you still be sitting there drinking or would you want to remain sharp and alert?
There's a reason bars and nightclubs employ bouncers....people get stupid when they drink and you don't even have to be the stupid one to get drawn into some drunks idea of having fun, you just need to be there and do something as simple as making eye contact.
alcohol tastes like the love child of vomit and mouthwash and even if they mixed fruit juice or even milk with alcohol I can still taste it, FTS.
Medical College of Virginia School of Medicine Class of 2013
For the record, I'm not suggesting you don't understand. Clearly you have your opinion, I have mine, and they are diametrically opposing viewpoints. We could argue this all day, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Here is an idea. If you are drinking, have a DD. Better than that have an ARMED DD.