My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate

My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate

This is a discussion on My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Woman Found Dead in NoLibs Lot Identified | NBC Philadelphia There is another article that confirms she had been out at the bar, drinking etc, ...

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Thread: My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate

  1. #1
    Member Array PRSOrator's Avatar
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    My response to the "alcohol and guns" debate

    Woman Found Dead in NoLibs Lot Identified | NBC Philadelphia

    There is another article that confirms she had been out at the bar, drinking etc, no BAC listed but she probably wasn't intoxicated. But this poor girl was at the mercy of her attacker and this happens all too often, many people on and off this forum's opinions previously stated in other threads / conversations would have this girl unarmed simply because she was going out drinking and hanging out with friends. This disturbing outcome is all too common.

    This is why I carry regardless of going out to the bar or drinking with friends. I don't think simply because people like to partake in normal and sociable activities that they shouldn't be permitted to defend themselves.


    Just my opinion.

    EDIT: Also, let's say she was armed and successfully defended herself, do you think a legal system would crucify her because her "judgment was impaired"? I hear this argument far too often, my opinion, if you're "impaired" or not, assault / rape / muggings are just as violent and tragic as if you weren't "impaired" and you should have the right to defend yourself regardless.


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    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Well said. I have nothing to add.

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    For me the decision was, I just don't drink anymore because I carry all the time or my firearm is close to me.
    "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." - Admiral Yamamoto

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    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Each and every German range I have ever been on has been alcohol-full. I've seen 3P shooters average 598s while pounding down strong German beer.

    I have been with German hunters who were soused to the gills, yet somehow, they managed to kill their bird, deer or boar, safely.

    I don't get the "alcohol and guns don't mix" hysteria. Just don't.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    I don't get the "alcohol and guns don't mix" hysteria. Just don't.
    That's because it's exactly what you called it. Hysteria. It's irrational.

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    The last time this subject was posted it went downhill quickly due in part to opinions of the subject matter. There is a simple way to end this.
    Send an email to the Attorney Generals office of your state and ask for a simple legal opinion based on a question like this.

    If I was legally carrying a firearm and was involved in a justified self defense shooting but at the time of the shooting was found to be under the influence/had consumed alcohol/or impaired by definition of law would this fact be held against me in the investigation or following criminal or civil action or would it negate the circumstances of the shooting simply due to the fact of alcohol being involved.

    Some will not need to do this as it violates state laws to carry while consuming or being in a bar or so on but for those that want to know send the email and see what response you get if any. Be sure and stick to the above format in the question so there is not a play on words and the answers can be fair across the board.
    One thing you must think of though if you were involved in a legal shooting incident do you think LE would ignore the fact that you have been drinking and not do a BA level? I assure you the lawyer you would call would tell you not to submit without a warrant because it could be used against you.
    In regards to the OP I feel sorrow and empathy for the yound woman and her family however there is simply not enough info provided to say if she was armed it would have made any difference.
    120 yep the Germans, French, Italians drink like fish and do so from a very young age it is simply a different culture. You are not far from me here in the **** hole now imagine some of the guys you are assigned with give them alcohol and send them to the range would it be the same outcome?
    It simply goes back to common sense. Dont take a two darvocet and drive a bulldozer, dont use the blow dryer in the shower. Anything that impaires your situational awareness and skill level should not be consumed or taken and then carry a firearm. But that is an opinion everyone has one.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Member Array mech's Avatar
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    ^^Agreed.
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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    i'm guessing some of you guys drive better after a few beers also?...

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    AzB
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    Each and every German range I have ever been on has been alcohol-full. I've seen 3P shooters average 598s while pounding down strong German beer.
    Um, Germany has one of the biggest alcoholism problems on the planet. It's affecting their economy, their families, and their health. I'm not sure that's really a great ideal to be setting up for us to admire.

    Ok, you have an anecdote showing someone can drink and shoot accurately. My brother in law fell out of his tree stand because he was drinking while hunting. I've lost several good friends in vehicle crashes because they were drinking.

    The bottom line is that drinking, even a little, removes inhibitions. This can impact decision making in a negative way. I've seen plenty of people do things while drinking that they would never do sober.

    My lifestyle is such that I have to keep my wits about me at all times. I do not drink if I'm carrying, riding my motorcycle, or even driving. These activities are inherently dangerous and require every bit of my faculties to ensure my safety, and the safety of others around me. This is called responsibility, which is in reality, the opposite of hysteria.
    Az

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    Member Array nevnut's Avatar
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    If I'm planning on only drinking 1 or 2 beers, I'll carry. If I drink anything more than that, my gun gets locked in the toolbox of my truck.

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    I usually don't drink more than one or two beers when being social at a bar because I have to drive home, so this would not be a problem with me and it is legal for me to carry in a bar in CT as long as I am not intoxicated.
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    Senior Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd like to simply be able to carry in a bar if I wasn't drinking. I don't drink, but I have bartenders as good friends, I really don't see the point in not being able to carry when I'm just sitting and gabbing while nursing a coke on their slow nights.
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

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    Member Array carryon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroom View Post
    For me the decision was, I just don't drink anymore because I carry all the time or my firearm is close to me.
    I agree. I made this same decision a year ago when my first child was born. I enjoyed drinking a beer, but not nearly as much as protecting my family. IMO, there will always be many good reasons NOT to consume alcohol, besides just the CC issue.
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    Member Array Benthic's Avatar
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    I can certainly respect the decisions of those who have chosen to not have anything to do with alcohol if they have a firearm on them, or near them. However, let's remember that the Second Amendment says: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It does NOT say ...shall not be infringed, as long as you haven't been drinking, or ...shall not be infringed, unless you haven't been properly trained.

    So while you may believe that mixing alcohol and guns under any circumstances is bad, or that training should be required for a CCW or pistol ownership, that's not what The Constitution says. So if we're going to support the Second Amendment (as I'm sure all here do) then we have to support the whole thing, even though sometimes it makes us a bit uncomfortable. We don't get to pick and choose.

    It's the same idea that applies to the infamous folks from the Westboro Baptist Church. While I find their hate speech disgusting, the First Amendment gives them the right to say whatever they wish. So as much as I'd like to, I can't find a legal reason why they should be silenced.

    Brian

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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unloved View Post
    That's because it's exactly what you called it. Hysteria. It's irrational.
    I think we have enough statistical data to show that alcohol and driving are not a good mix. It seems that you would be able to conclude that alcohol and the operation of any device that has serious consequences if not operated properly, would be a poor mix.

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