Man walks in with gun in his hand

Man walks in with gun in his hand

This is a discussion on Man walks in with gun in his hand within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I used to work at O'Reilly Auto Parts, One day a gentleman came in with his hand behind his back. He walked up to the ...

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Thread: Man walks in with gun in his hand

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Man walks in with gun in his hand

    I used to work at O'Reilly Auto Parts, One day a gentleman came in with his hand behind his back. He walked up to the counter, and placed a gun on the counter. Heres the twist, It was still in a holster. I thought I was getting robbed, so i stepped back and said, ok sir, i don't want any trouble just tell me what you want. He looked at me funny and then realized how what he was doing looked. He then profusely apologized and made every effort to make sure i knew he was not robbing me. I genuinely thought i was being robbed and I was scared, not so much of being shot, but that it could lead to that. Would I have been justified in drawing my handgun before he told me he was just in there for parts and couldn't get the holster on his belt before he got to the counter, or no. Also, if as a customer, i had walked in on something similar to this, would I have been justified in at least drawing my weapon, if not shooting. Just a little something thats been bugging me lately. Personally I think he should not have even been carrying a gun if he did not think that it would look like he was robbing me.
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."


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    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    Wait. What?
    Luis

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    ....... He then profusely apologized and made every effort to make sure i knew he was not robbing me. I genuinely thought i was being robbed and I was scared, not so much of being shot, but that it could lead to that.
    I very well may have drawn on him. He made a VERY STUPID mistake. If you can NOT secure your sidearm the last thing you should do is 'carry' it into any establishment.


    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Would I have been justified in drawing my handgun before he told me he was just in there for parts and couldn't get the holster on his belt before he got to the counter, or no.
    That'd require a check with state laws AND possibly O'Rilys company policy. To me, and I AIN"T no 'expert', I see a threat of deadly force if a gun comes out at an auto-parts store. His quick 'explaination' certinaly would calm me down a bit, but he'd have to LEAVE and NOT come back until he learns how to SAFELY carry a weapon in my place of business.

    I don't suffer STUPID very well.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    Member Array 007BondJames's Avatar
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    Most BG don't use holsters because it would be used as evidence if they have to ditch the gun in a traffic stop. The fact that he had the gun holstered and laying on the counter and was not banishing the firearm may be a clue. Did the guy seem nervous? Calm? Was he casing the joint? Just be on guard OC is legal in my state so you will see more holstered guns. I feel you did the right thing.
    Hitler once said, “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”

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    Member Array Bandolero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Would I have been justified in drawing my handgun before he told me he was just in there for parts and couldn't get the holster on his belt before he got to the counter, or no. Also, if as a customer, i had walked in on something similar to this, would I have been justified in at least drawing my weapon, if not shooting. Just a little something thats been bugging me lately. Personally I think he should not have even been carrying a gun if he did not think that it would look like he was robbing me.
    Can you articulate why you believed that you, or another person, were in fear of imminent death or serious physical injury?

    That is almost always what the use of deadly physical force boils down to.

    From your perspective did the subject have?:
    • Ability (he had a firearm in hand)
    • Opportunity (there was no shield between you and him; he was within the range of the weapon)
    • Manifested intent (he pulled the firearm)

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    I don't suffer STUPID very well.

    This says it all.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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    Perhaps, just perhaps, his demeanor, voice and attitude could have contributed to his not getting shot. Stupid? Yes, but the way he acted may not have coincided with the big picture, thus keeping him 'above ground' and out of jail.
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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Perhaps, just perhaps, his demeanor, voice and attitude could have contributed to his not getting shot. Stupid? Yes, but the way he acted may not have coincided with the big picture, thus keeping him 'above ground' and out of jail.
    Very true. A full measure does account for the 'total' of the behavior(s) of all involved.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    Poor judgment on the customer's behavior, though I wouldn't say it fits the definition of you needing to defend yourself by shooting him. I can hear his attorney saying that his client brought in a lawfully holstered weapon, laid it on the counter of the auto part store to simply inquire about a missing screw to fit his grips, and all of a sudden the clerk shot him! Nope.

    As far as drawing your weapon? It's hard to say on an internet forum without actually seeing all this unfold. Maybe, maybe not. I'd at least had my hand, discreetly or otherwise on or near my weapon. Armchair quarterbacking is hard to say without actually being there.
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    Member Array Medic218's Avatar
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    Given the scenario described I probably wouldn't have drawn on him and would have probably been more curious as to what was in the holster.
    My first thought reading the OP was that it was stuck and he was lookin for some lube or somethin to help his old gun break free.
    Stereotypes and profiling exist for an reason ya know. If he didn't look the part or out of place he probably wasn't.
    Also, go with your gut. It's probably right.
    Also, I wouldn't draw down on someone on a hunch. I'm gonna be damn sure before I put myself in that situation and have to explain the goings down to the cops later.
    And it's kind of a cowboy thing to do but why not just snatch it off the counter away from him as an alternative to drawing on him untill you know his intentions.
    "I don't like repeat offenders, I like DEAD offenders!" -- Ted Nugent
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It sounds like he was trying to put the holster/gun on for OC and could not get it done berfor getting to the counter. He may have taken it off earlier for some reason and forgot to remount it. A little poor judgement.

    As mentioned earlier, totality of the situation, I would probably not have drawn on him. Holstered guns don't bother me much, especially if I have my own strap on. Trying to bring a gun into play that is on a counter in a holster is probably going to be a relatively slow process.

  12. #12
    New Member Array Bronco Bob's Avatar
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    He should have taken time to properly put his holster on before leaving home.

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Stupid on the customers part, he should have probably secured his holster before going out
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    Member Array silo's Avatar
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    The litmus test isn't whether you are in danger but whether you perceive that you are in danger. The still-being-in-the-holster part might screw you in court (although you could claim you only saw the handle or something of that sort), but if some guy pulls a gun on me, he should be expecting a bullet in return.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    This guys an idiot. I would have called the cops. Stupid is as stupid does...
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