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restraining an intruder in your home

11K views 112 replies 48 participants last post by  HotGuns 
#1 ·
You're sleeping in your house, and awakened by a noise. You pick up your gun, and find a burglar. You point your gun at him, he puts down his weapon if he is carrying one, but if unarmed, he puts his hands up and gets on his knees. Or, if he runs out of your house, he may signal down an LEO and claim to have been threatened by you. The LEO goes in, and a dispute goes on to determine who is right after you claim you had a break in. It is hours before it is determined you were right, and the intruder is taken into custody. You might have been taken downtown in that time.

If an intruder comes into your home, armed or unarmed, and they surrender to you, would it be a good idea to cuff him or tape him up to keep him from doing such a thing? Is it even legal to restrain an intruder if he surrenders and complies with you?
 
#34 ·
Before I answer your question, let me say this....If I am awakened by a noise in my house, pick up my gun, and identify someone as a burglar, then I am prepared and WILL protect myself, my family, and my home AND will do so with out any questions being asked. You can read between the lines as to my actions.

As to your question, if someone were to detain a burglar, then I would recommend they call 911, make the dispatcher aware that you are armed, take a defensive position, and be aware that more than one person couild either be in the house or outside waiting on their friend, and wait for LEO to arrive. At the slightest indication of the detainment situation going downhill, then do what is necessary to protect yourself and your family. Under no circumstances would I try to restrain the individual. JMO
 
#35 ·
And a continuation of the scenario:

You approach the intruder to cuff or tape him, having never had any training in how to do so safely. While you are attempting this maneuver, having cleverly placed yourself within arm's reach, the intruder grabs your firearm, and a struggle ensues. A round is discharged, and goes.... who knows? Into the intruder? Into you? Through the wall into the kids' room?

There is a reason the police will hold a person they suspect to be armed at gunpoint from an advantaged position and await backup before attempting to search / cuff the suspect.

Matt
 
#37 ·
the likelihood of a bad guy running out of your house and finding a cop and telling him that he was in your home but that you threatend him with a gun is so remotely thin, its laughable. the last place a bad guy wants to be is in front of a cop. besides, if a badguy saw me with my gun, he also saw several bright flashes of light and hopefully not much else.
 
#38 ·
There are no "rules" after breaking into my HOME....PERIOD

There's no talking, no "restraining", no running, and no "visitin'" me again in the near future. He/they are IN...my home. The have broken into it, and my only assumption is that they are there to do me harm, not come in and make a friggin' sandwich. This is not going to end well.:twak:
 
#40 ·
Do you REALLY want to be the guy standing between a criminal and his freedom?

Do you REALLY want to be in that fight were the other side has more at stake than you do?

Let them go.

Let them run.

Either shoot them when it's justified, or allow them to leave.

Either way, you do not risk yourself for no reason - and that's what close combat while armed is.
 
#46 · (Edited by Moderator)
The second he entered my house he was standing between me and MY freedom.

I have a girlfriend and a baby, and my OWN life. I have more at stake than the scumbag that broke into MY house.

Let them go? Let them run? For what? So they can run outside to their vehicle or home boys and come back in guns blazing? So they have time to formulate a better plan, one where they act even smarter and will be prepared to blow away the occupants of the home upon sight on the next job?

Um, it's pretty much justified from the moment they enter my home until the time the police come and take them away. Even if I disarm them, or get them to disarm themselves, I don't know what other weapons they have, who else is in the house, or that just because they've been disarmed of their primary weapon, which could be their only weapon, they won't try and kill me bare handed, take my gun and kill me and mine.

Why risk myself for no reason? You gotta be KIDDING me. HE RISKED MY LIFE WHEN HE CAME INTO MY HOUSE UNINVITED. By your logic you should lock your doors and pray for the police to arrive swiftly while your daughter is getting raped in the next room.
 
#42 ·
I believe you missed my point sir. It is pure fantasy to believe that an ARMED man in my home will have the time to drop his weapons and slowly take two steps back while raising his hands. To indulge you in your fantasy though I'd say yes, he would get a free pass. It will never happen like that in a million years but in that one in a billion chance then the BG lives.

My point in my first post was that in the real world he gets no warning and about one millionth of a second to drop the weapon. After the weapon is down he will be told "not to move". Let's be real here, he is still a lethal threat to me and my family until the police arrive and take him into custody. If he moves even a little bit I would not try to guess his intentions, I would just shoot him.
 
#44 ·
Precisely...:hand10:

By the time I see his DEADLY WEAPON, there is no time for him to then begin the process of dropping it and/or "placing" it on the ground mumbling something like, "Sorry mister, I just..."

If he is NOT armed, he will be told to not move, and he will NOT begin turning around slooooowly and walking back out of my house that HE broke into. He is going to jail, or he's getting shot. THIS sob, will not be allowed to go home for the evening, and begin planning next time to ARM himself in another "home invasion" against someone weaker, and/or less prepared.

Letting someone "go" is the worst thing to do...I don't even understand how anyone can advocate perpetuating this idea.
This doesn't mean one automatically "kills" him, it simply means this sob, is not going to "get away" with this.

Again: Jail.....or a hospital then jail...or a bag.
 
#47 ·
providing the OP's scenario took place with no shots fired, I would make NO attempt to restrain him physically. I'm not getting within 15 feet of him... even if he's proned out spread eagle on the floor, and I am standing on (one of) his weapon(s).

I am calling 911 on speaker. With the exception of the few 10th's of a second to dial... both of my hands are on my weapon, and it is always pointed at him... I am not taking my eyes off of him, nor my gun.

In a rural area I will have a bit of a wait... prolly 10 minutes or more. I will tell the dispatcher that when I hear sirens, I will explain to the dispatcher the best means of entry for the LEO to my house... I will not take my weapon off the intruder until the police have theirs trained on him or until I see the UNIFORM. LEO will be aware of this because it will be explained to the dispatcher. LEO needs to announce, because it could be an accomplice.

If I am not alone in the house (which is most likely) my wife will be making the call. She is armed at this point as well but out of the line of fire (of me and the first BG).
 
#51 ·
Well, the OP's scenario has the BG putting his weapon down before all you tough guys get a chance to shoot him; or he gets down on his knees and surrenders, again, before you have a chance to shoot him.

If you shoot him in the OP's scenario, after he's surrendered and no longer a threat, you're committing unjustified homicide, i.e., murder. He's no longer a threat to you, therefore you're murdering him if you kill him. Your castle doctrine, and your concealed weapons permit, only gives you the option of ending a threat to your life. You don't get to be an executioner, no matter what your fantasies may entail. Also you don't get to kill someone based on what they might do when they leave your "invaded" home; or for that matter, what they've done while they're there. Revenge is not part of your right to self-defense.

As to restraining him etc., having a gun and/or a permit doesn't make you a LEO. Leave that to the cops, and keep your distance.
 
#56 ·
Well, the OP's scenario has the BG putting his weapon down before all you tough guys get a chance to shoot him; or he gets down on his knees and surrenders, again, before you have a chance to shoot him.
TO the OP's POINT....and MINE.
"You point your gun at him, he puts down his weapon if he is carrying one"

In MY book....AS I was pointing at the sob WITH a gun..I'm firing. There's no "tough guy" involved there, Quicksabre, there is simply SEEING a GUN in my home....and reacting instantly. YOU "wait" for him to put it down. Not me....I see it, he's armed, I'm reacting. Why on God's green earth anyone here would hesistate any upon seeing someone with a weapon in your home, is beyond me. I personally don't see how upon seeing it, he is going to put it down faster than me pulling the trigger many times. I'm simply not "waiting" to see what he's going to do, was my point. :smile:


If you shoot him in the OP's scenario, after he's surrendered and no longer a threat, you're committing unjustified homicide, i.e., murder. He's no longer a threat to you, therefore you're murdering him if you kill him. Your castle doctrine, and your concealed weapons permit, only gives you the option of ending a threat to your life. You don't get to be an executioner, no matter what your fantasies may entail.
I don't think too many here have stated execution.....I certainly haven't. Again, for me, if he has a weapon, there never really was much of a chance for him to "surrender". If he's unarmed, and surrenders, that's another ball game. Likewise, if it's dark as night, and I know my son is not this target, and I have the slightest inclination this idiot MAY be armed, HE'S IN MY HOUSE!!!!! Do I hope he's "not" armed and not shoot? NO!
We can play "what if's" all day long with this, but quite frankly, I don't care what others "feeeeeeel".

Slower....if need be.....for clarification. ;-)
1) If he's armed, he's Dead. Stopped, threat gone, whatever you or anyone else wants to call it.
2) If I even remotely "think" that a person, who is IN my house, and is not my 11 yr old son, is armed.....he's Dead. Stopped, threat gone, whatever you or anyone else wants to call it.
3) If I come upon him and KNOW that he is not armed, and he surrenders, he's staying there until the police arrive, and they take him to jail. There is no turning around slowly, and apologizing, and tiptoeing away as I watch him leave and "phew, thank God he's gone and didn't hurt us". He's STAYING, one way or the other, and the LAW will hand him judgement for breaking into my home. Free pass, still alive, but jail. :smile:
IF....IF..he makes a move, it all changes again. BIG difference in my personal statements...:bier:

Also you don't get to kill someone based on what they might do when they leave your "invaded" home; or for that matter, what they've done while they're there. Revenge is not part of your right to self-defense.
Uh....."might" do? "Might" have ALREADY broken into my home, and "might" not be holding a gun? This isn't "revenge", this is something called REALITY.
He made the decision. If he's armed, in my home, he's as good as dead. Period. I quite frankly, don't have the trust nor the time to wait and "hope" he puts down his weapon. Again, this is ARMED.
If he's not armed, he will STAY in my home until the police arrive to haul his ass to jail. He will NOT LEAVE.
 
#53 ·
You got some Connecticut Leftist logic in you.

Are you sure you aren't a hippy?
No need to get insulting.

Making sure you're justified before taking a human life is Christian, not leftist, or hippie. It's also not wanting to spend life in prison for Murder 1.
 
#61 ·
Hold at gunpoint, calling the cops at the same time, that way my story is the one on tape and in action so no matter what he does or says, to bad if I decide to let him. It's on him actually from the point I get the drop on him.
 
#62 ·
As others have implied, if armed, he would have to be a quick drop, as opposed to quick draw, artist. If he managed it or was unarmed I would detain him. I would prefer him hooked, so I would probably hook him up.
 
#63 ·
Keep him at gunpoint and keep your distance. Call the cops and wait for their arrival. Maybe use the camera on your phone and take a mugshot??? If he runs let him go but at least you can show the pic of the perp to police. After all, they say the phone is the best weapon to have so why not use it to the fullest. :call2:
 
#67 ·
As others have implied, if armed, he would have to be a quick drop, as opposed to quick draw, artist. If he managed it or was unarmed I would detain him. I would prefer him hooked, so I would probably hook him up.
throw him some cuffs and say "either put them on or get shot" lol
 
#71 ·
I agree, cuffs in front are for tv, etc. Cuffs, even behind the back, are a means of partial restraint/security and no cause for relaxation of vigil. I use to easily slip cuffs from behind to the front when conducting training problems.
 
#70 ·
If he is in my house and armed I am not risking the time needed to see if he will drop his weapon. He will drop his weapon when I drop him.

If he turns and runs out of the house all the better. The threat is gone and there is no reason, nor justification, to do anything else.

If he does surrender before I pull the trigger I will absolutely NOT be trying to restrain him, though Missouri law allows me to do so.

LEO's spend a lot of hours practicing such activities. Even if do have the training it is still not a wise decision.
 
#78 ·
Since he's in your house, keeping him guarded with gun out or pointed makes sense from SD standpoint - otherwise he could pull a gun out - or grab the one he dropped on the floor if that's what happened. So, you're not holding anyone for the sake of holding anyone. Restraints are a bad idea - don't get close, people can move fast and you don't want your gun taken in a struggle. Also, if someone runs - shooting would be really dicey legally. No longer SD.

A 911 call with those circumstances described will get the cops there quick I would think - then the problem is, don't have the gun in your hand when they come in. Holster it or put on floor far away from BG and raise your hands - in these circumstances maybe best to holster it.
And make sure in the 911 call you describe yourself carefully to help the cops out.
 
#81 ·
Also, if someone runs - shooting would be really dicey legally. No longer SD.
Well, most here seem to say that if he moves at all, they're going to kill him, even if he's trying to run away. In my book, and I'd bet in many prosecutors' books, that makes one a murderer.

The guy is no longer a threat, once he's running away. What he may or may not do in the future, or to others, is not your concern or within your rights to deal with. Killing someone who has surrendered his weapon, or never had one - as are the cases in the OP scenario being discussed here - a BG who no longer directly threatens you, is trying to escape, etc. is murder, i.e., unjustifiable homicide.

Your only right is to stop an attack on you and your family's lives, not to get revenge, be judge and jury delivering the death penalty, or to act in some "future crime" prevention "supercop" mode.

A 911 call with those circumstances described will get the cops there quick I would think - then the problem is, don't have the gun in your hand when they come in.
C'mon - get with the program - who needs the cops when you can just kill the guy and claim he was going for the gun he so cleverly dropped on the floor?

And make sure in the 911 call you describe yourself carefully to help the cops out.
The situation can be dicey for sure. I'd holster it once they arrive and ID myself to the cops ASAP.
 
#87 ·
Anyone uninvited in my home gets shot without any warning or comment from me in the back if need be. Restraining him should not be an issue if I do my part. As I have previously said I am not an EMT or doctor nor have any ability to diagnose injury. So I have no compulsion to render aid and risk exposing myself to their disease infested junky crack whore fecal maggot blood. Once LEO arrive they can determine if aid is needed and make the appropriate call.

If I thought he posed any threat whatsoever, NO MERCY!
They have made a violent illegal entry into your home. Can you explain how they are not a threat?
 
#88 ·
They have made a violent illegal entry into your home. Can you explain how they are not a threat?
You obviously did not read my post. Where in it did I leave any ambiguity as to my mindset in this situation. Since I am unable to forsee every possible situation I included this caveat "If I thought he posed any threat whatsoever" Since I cannot imagine every possible circumstance that could ever possibly happen. It is conceivable that there could be some circumstance where I did not shoot on sight. It is highly unlikely, but I cannot say impossible. Understand now?

OK, here is one. As I come around the corner and see the BG in my living room, I also spot the LEO in my front doorway that my neighbor called when they saw a stranger in my yard at night. Said LEO is drawing down on the BG. I am not, showing myself, firing or anything. I would drop back around the corner, take a defensive positon and wait. BG is in the gun sights of LEO surrendering to him. I would not perceive a deadly force level threat at that point.

I would not fire on someone who was not a threat to me or mine.
 
#89 ·
If an intruder comes into your home, armed or unarmed, and they surrender to you, would it be a good idea to cuff him or tape him up to keep him from doing such a thing? Is it even legal to restrain an intruder if he surrenders and complies with you?
Do you think that the BG is no longer a threat because he "appears" to have surrendered to you or he "appears" unarmed to you? How about his buddy standing in the dark corner with his Glock (cuz all thugs carry Glocks) waiting for you to expose yourself?
 
#102 ·
Gentlemen...

Lets quit the chest thumping and keep it on topic. There is no need to take things personal. I've left this thread running because it has some good points in it and there are several things to think about.

Anymore complaints about this thread and it'll get closed.
 
#104 ·
I wonder how many people in this thread have taken force on force training focusing on fighting inside of a structure, or use & retention of firearms in grappling environment.

It seems like their are two camps in this thread:

a) Those who have either taken such training as civilians, LE or Military who believe that if they aren't going to shoot the intruder outright, no way in hell they will risk close combat while armed unless no other choice is presented...even if that means letting someone go.

or

b) Those who have no clue about how dangerous it is to attempt to restrain someone who wants to get away, and think that just because they own a gun, carry it and may have taken a CCW class that they know how to hold someone who doesn't want to be held safely, at gunpoint or otherwise (such as tying them up...)


The better trained you are, the more you realize that any conflict has the nasty potential for NOT going YOUR way, and thus you seek to avoid unnecessary fights.

I'm not taking sides. I'm not advocating anyone do anything they aren't comfortable doing.

If you think you are well trained enough to capture someone...even an unarmed someone who doesn't want to stay - go for it.

But...

Grab a friend, double check your weapons are unloaded, and see how well it works. Give it a few runs...with real resistance.

You will not be pleasantly surprised at the ease of the encounter.

Guns will be grabbed. Fingers will be sprained. Bruises will be distributed. Egos will be broken.

You will 'die' in training.

Hopefully, not for real in combat.

Like I said, if you think you are bad enough to keep someone in custody who doesn't want to leave, even if they aren't armed (that you can see...) do it.

But try it out first with a friend and see if you really are all that.
 
#105 ·
I wonder how many people in this thread have taken force on force training focusing on fighting inside of a structure, or use & retention of firearms in grappling environment.

It seems like their are two camps in this thread:

a) Those who have either taken such training as civilians, LE or Military who believe that if they aren't going to shoot the intruder outright, no way in hell they will risk close combat while armed unless no other choice is presented...even if that means letting someone go.

or

b) Those who have no clue about how dangerous it is to attempt to restrain someone who wants to get away, and think that just because they own a gun, carry it and may have taken a CCW class that they know how to hold someone who doesn't want to be held safely, at gunpoint or otherwise (such as tying them up...)
It would appear to me that you have left out a catagory, which is a combination of a and b.

c) Those who have the training and experience of having taken many people into custody and restraining them, who may not shoot an intruder, but will restrain him.
 
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