Does the revolver have any use for CCW?????? - Page 5

Does the revolver have any use for CCW??????

This is a discussion on Does the revolver have any use for CCW?????? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by automatic slim A S&W 640 is just as concealable as a glock 19, but the .357 ammo has way more punch. One ...

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Thread: Does the revolver have any use for CCW??????

  1. #61
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    A S&W 640 is just as concealable as a glock 19, but the .357 ammo has way more punch. One hit center mass with the .357 will put down most assailants, can you say the same for the 9mm?
    Wrong. If the .357 doesn't hit anything critical, it will have no immediate physical effect. Therefore it doesn't matter if you're hit with a .357 or a 9mm if you don't get hit where it hurts. The .357 is a 9mm(.355) with a greater charge, that's it. I won't deny the inherent damage caused by similar projectiles, one traveling at a greater speed than the other. However, the above still remains the same.

    COM does not always mean you will stop your attacker. It may take several shots until you land a critical hit and stop the threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    What kind of encounter do you foresee requiring as much ammo as a Tommy Gun holds?
    It doesn't hurt to be prepared now does it? There is a reason why police switched over from 5 shot revolvers to hi-capacity wunder-nines and other increased capacity polymer platforms. They weren't dealing with criminals carrying derringers anymore. The bad guys had better and bigger firepower, so the police had to step it up too.

    There is a plethora of other reasons, but the above remains true and stays within the confine of the question you asked.

    Also you must consider that even with 5 shots, you might not bring down one single attacker, may he be drugged up on serious narcotics or hallucinogens. Add to that, the amount of predators who work in numbers, as well as the fact that they may be very determined and the cavalry(police) could be several hours away in some parts of the US.

    If there are two of them or more, and they have more rounds than you do, and it really does turn into a shoot out, you're out of luck.

    That being said, I carry a S&W 642, 5 shot 38spl snub. I use it for when I conceal (as I normally open carry), or sometimes carry it as a bug, in addition to my duty size weapon. I don't feel underpowered with a 5 shot, as I bring atleast an extra speed loader, but I also wouldn't carry just my snub if I had to go into the city. Just some observations for you folks.
    Last edited by Jcabin; June 13th, 2010 at 09:47 PM.


  2. #62
    kpw
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    The one instance where I might have been outgunned involved 5 guys expressing their desire towards my then GF and taking me out in the process. I'm being polite with my language here. I was carrying a 3" Md.66. Maybe it was just the anger in me at the time, but I didn't feel undergunned at all. I doubt the survivors would have stuck around after I started shooting.

    As to those that think the .357 is so mighty in a 2" snub, you might want to check your ballistics. Your at 9mm +P ballistics at best and often worse with some of the newer 3/4 mag loads on the market today.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    comparing police use of firearms to citizen conceal carry is a pretty ridiculous statement. There are 3 reasons police went to semi auto pistols over revolvers


    #3 they weigh less
    #2 they are higher capacity
    and the biggest reason
    #1 they are cheaper to buy and maintain
    Don't let them fool you... if revolvers where cheaper then autos then you would still see more cops carry them.

    If revolvers had no place in CCW they would have died out long ago. If you think power and caliber is all there is to carrying then I suggest you read some more in the defensive scenario section of this forum.
    Revolvers have been around for a couple hundred years. The semi auto pistol has been around for about 100 years. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Both fire projectiles but the similarities end pretty much there. Both have different habits and react differently.


    EXAMPLE:

    Recoil is going to be a bit different between a revo and a bottom feeder.
    Depending on the person this may be good or bad.

    AND

    DA Revolvers have a mechanical advance actuated by the trigger, semi autos rely on the pressure of the round and several springs to load the next round. A FTF on a pistol means you have to initiate a tap rack boom to attempt to clear the chamber of the defective round and chamber a new one. A revolver you just pull the trigger again.

    Simplicity and speed advantage go to the revolver, However this means 1 less round available. Now if the first round is the one that failed it wouldn't matter.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  4. #64
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    comparing police use of firearms to citizen conceal carry is a pretty ridiculous statement. There are 3 reasons police went to semi auto pistols over revolvers
    Really? I wonder why lawyers always compare that to prove how the choice of weapons people licensed to carry choose are reasonable...

    Pah, it's just rediculous :)

  5. #65
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Really? I wonder why lawyers always compare that to prove how the choice of weapons people licensed to carry choose are reasonable...

    Pah, it's just rediculous :)
    The statement was about police switching from revolvers to semi automatic pistols for duty pistols, not what police have VS what the citizen has.


    I'm trying to say police switching from revolvers to semi automatics has nothing to do with the place of the revolver in the world of conceal carry.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  6. #66
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    I'm trying to say police switching from revolvers to semi automatics has nothing to do with the place of the revolver in the world of conceal carry.
    Really? Read the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    It doesn't hurt to be prepared now does it? There is a reason why police switched over from 5 shot revolvers to hi-capacity wunder-nines and other increased capacity polymer platforms. They weren't dealing with criminals carrying derringers anymore. [B]The bad guys had better and bigger firepower, so the police had to step it up too.[/B]

    There is a plethora of other reasons, but the above remains true and stays within the confine of the question you asked.

    I was showing that what it is the police are facing on the street, the licensed gun owner may very well face the same thing. I know your thinking pattern is within the scope of concealed carry, and I understand that. I come from an open carry state, where it is legal to open carry every place I can conceal carry, so I OC everywhere, daily. That being said, there is a good relevance to discuss what the police carry in the "world of carry". Most of the cops I know only carry a snub as bug, because they know it will work every time.

    You may think revolvers aren't in place anymore simply because semi-auto pistols are cheaper, that is wrong. Many of the police departments around me carry Sigs and HK's. The price of the gun is relative to the department, and all service weapons are bought at a police discount via the manufacturer or dealer.

    My point was, if you read the above quote, that 5 shots is not sufficient for what an officer might encounter during the duty of his job. Chances are a citizen won't encounter that, but it's very possible. I'm just saying there are valid concerns about carrying an ultra low capacity firearm. Capacity isn't everything, but when you need it and wish you had it, you might be out of luck. One needs to find a happy medium and consider alot of factors.

    For example, I'll CC my sw 642 if I'm just heading to grab a pack of smokes, or going grocery shopping and don't feel like putting on a belt/holster because I'm lazy that day. If I'm going into the city, I'll carry my full size weapon, and probably a revolver as back up.

  7. #67
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Officers never carried a 5 shot revolver as an issued duty weapon.

    Again I fail to see how citizen conceal carry has anything to do with what the police carry as a DUTY weapon. Our needs are somewhat different.

    Not everyone can carry a wundernine or ultra high capacity semi autos. Not everyone can operate a slide. They just don't have the strength or maybe arthritis makes it difficult. When it comes down to it there are only a few types of pocket gun. When you downsize semi autos to pocket size you don't get the capacity advantage you would with larger frames. Sure you can carry an LCP with 6+1 rounds of .380 but I would rather have the 5 rounds of .357 in a snub revolver.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  8. #68
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Officers never carried a 5 shot revolver as an issued duty weapon.
    They did. Eventually they were issued 6 shot revolvers, some of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Again I fail to see how citizen conceal carry has anything to do with what the police carry as a DUTY weapon. Our needs are somewhat different.
    Somewhat different. I was simply pointing out that what the police face, is what a citizen might face. My girlfriends younger brother was violently beaten to a bloody pulp yesterday morning while taking a walk by two masked/gloved men. Violent criminals working in groups is becoming more and more common. Thus the necessity for higher capacity.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Not everyone can carry a wundernine or ultra high capacity semi autos. Not everyone can operate a slide. They just don't have the strength or maybe arthritis makes it difficult. When it comes down to it there are only a few types of pocket gun. When you downsize semi autos to pocket size you don't get the capacity advantage you would with larger frames. Sure you can carry an LCP with 6+1 rounds of .380 but I would rather have the 5 rounds of .357 in a snub revolver.
    Agreed. My girlfriend can't rack the slide on any semi-auto. She had success with the Ruger SR9, but that's just way too big for her to carry. However, the SR9c is out now, so we will see. The revolver would be much easier for her to operate, I agree.

    As far as having a .357 snub vs a LCP, it would be dependent on if the .357 met my needs. If I was forced to conceal, and had to conceal well, the .357 might be too bulky, so I would go with the LCP. I don't know. Luckily, I live in an open carry state so most of these issues don't haunt me.

    I already have a snub sw 642, .38spl. It fits great in the pocket, of some pants, but I really want to get a IWB holster for it so I have better retentive capabilities.

  9. #69
    Member Array celticredneck's Avatar
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    I have heard of very few cases where a revolver jammed. When you pull the trigger, a well maintained revolver with good ammo is going to go bang. As reliable as today's semi autos are, they are more prone to jams than is a revolver. As for misfires, well;

    Glock" Click, rack the slide. bang, bang
    My S&W .357, or Colt, "click bang bang."

  10. #70
    Senior Member Array Chief1297's Avatar
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    I dont know about every one else but I do change my tactics slightly carrying a revolver vs the auto. I know I have fewer rounds and after the first is down range I am moving to a different location. I would hope to be in a covered position when I had the need to reload. Not to say I stick around while carrying an auto but I am thinking of the limitations of my weapon that I am carrying. The OPs situation would have been the same if he were carrying a revolver in my opinion. I have no qualms what-so-ever about carrying a 5-shot .357 w/reload.

  11. #71
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    Train like you fight
    Fight like you train.

    Pick your defense weapon and train with it. Doesn't matter. Learn to operate the gun you have, proficiently. You should have hundreds if not thousands of rounds through you primary carry piece.

    If it is an automatic, you should be able to dump rounds reliably with out FTF, FTE's or lock ups. IF the auto is prone to any of these pick a different carry piece.

    If you choose a wheel gun, you should be able to reload with out having to look at the cylinder and fumble with the speed loader. Should be second nature.

    You have to be 100% confident that you can fight with the gun you have.

  12. #72
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    Does it have any use? Sure. Especially as a BUG. Most shootings involve very few rounds anyway. I carry a pistol, but if I had a small revolver I'd probably carry that too.
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  13. #73
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullitt1724 View Post
    Train like you fight
    Fight like you train.

    Pick your defense weapon and train with it. Doesn't matter. Learn to operate the gun you have, proficiently. You should have hundreds if not thousands of rounds through you primary carry piece.
    Kind of ironic, you mention training, yet you didn't tell anyone to actually get professional training. For what it's worth, the amount of time and money spent on ammo and range trips, one could pay a couple hundred and attend a training course with reputable trainers and walk out after a day or two with the level of skill it would have taken you thousands of rounds to learn, the hard way.

  14. #74
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    I was thinking of taking the NRA Self Defense Outside and Inside the Home courses.... are they any good?
    Glock 19
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    Shodan, Jujutsu

  15. #75
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Yes, revolvers have a place and always will. But, nothing beats an auto that's working with more than 10 rounds and a extra mag when a pack attacks.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

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