Do you shoot him?

This is a discussion on Do you shoot him? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tacman605 So let me get this straight you are going to tell the investigating LEO and the following jury and/or prosecutor a ...

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Thread: Do you shoot him?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post

    So let me get this straight you are going to tell the investigating LEO and the following jury and/or prosecutor a man who is drunk and mistakingly broke into your home whom you know was not armed or a threat would be shot down simply because he was drunk and broke into your house by mistake?
    I am not a lawyer but was a cop for a long time and I would bet some of the best criminal defense lawyers in the country would be lining up for this case whether he lived or died.
    I realize that in some states the caste doctrine says he breaks in you can use deadly force but you must also realize that many say that you must be in fear for your life. An unarmed drunk in your living room who broke into your house by mistake does not fit that criteria.
    Think about what you are saying on an open public forum that you will with premeditation kill someone who is unarmed and not a threat if he is illegally in your home.
    Let me ask you a question. How the heck am I going to determine all of this information about my home invader that you think I'm going to know? Remember this is at 2AM when I've just been woken up by a break in. This whole encounter will play out in seconds and I will have no previous knowledge of this intruder.

    I'm not going to ask the guy any questions, I'm not going to smell his breath and I'm certainly not going to search him. He's going to get shot and it will be HIS fault. AFTER the fact the investigation may reveal all of these facts that you assume I will already know.

    The only facts that I will have at the time are these:

    1) He is here in my home at night and he is not a family member.
    2) With an invader in my home at 2 AM I will certainly be in fear for my life and for the life of my family.

    That is all I will need to know to satisfy the law AND my conscience. BANG.

    THAT is what I mean by some mistakes are just too big.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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  3. #32
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    Look guys I agree if there is someone in our home we all agree that most if not all of us would shoot. But we are replying to the original post. I would probably not ask questions, I would take the element of surprise. BUT..... If you went down the road of the OP and you had the guy disarmed and proned out it would read murder to a jury if you took the shot. I know we are all really tough guys and gals here but at some point boom boom boom isn't always the best option.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back 40 View Post
    Look guys I agree if there is someone in our home we all agree that most if not all of us would shoot. But we are replying to the original post. I would probably not ask questions, I would take the element of surprise. BUT..... If you went down the road of the OP and you had the guy disarmed and proned out it would read murder to a jury if you took the shot. I know we are all really tough guys and gals here but at some point boom boom boom isn't always the best option.
    Agreed, if he surrendered or even ran out of the house- absolutely no shot. Still maintaining high level of awareness while waiting for cops.
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  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    I totally agree with tacman & wilber!

    No longer a threat- no longer needs to be shot.

    I am NOT a would be murderer and would NOT want to go on trial for such an offense.

    That being said SC is a CD state.
    AND
    God forbid ANYONE breaks into my house at 2am.
    AND
    Barring my two pitbulls don't make mincemeat out of him first; I would most likely shoot on sight. (So really; this is a pointless scenario for me to consider.)

  6. #35
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    Well according to the original post he is surrendered and unarmed but anyways. I cannot say 100% percent what I would do but using the original post he would be held at gunpoint until LEO's arrive. Should he decide to leave he gets to leave covered at gunpoint all the way out the door.
    In regards to awakened in the middle of the night by someone in the house the BG would be challenged by me with a handgun with a weapon mounted light. If he produced a weapon and was a threat he would be dealt with accordingly, if he attempted a furtive movement, i.e. acted like he was reaching for a weapon, he would be dealt with accordingly, but in the same manner if he complied with commands and proned out and waited for LEO's to arrive then he would also be dealt with accordingly.
    I would assume nothing he would be considered a threat until proven otherwise. Once he is under control or it is determined that he is not a lethal threat at that moment we would be back to square one with hold until LEO's arrive.
    He would not be ambushed, shot in the back, or gunned down just because he chose to drink and break in to the wrong house. You may not agree but, to me you have the responsibility to determine if this guy is a threat or not before lighting him up but that is your choice that you have to live with and defend yourself with in court.
    We will just have to agree to disagree. How I would handle the situation is totally different than how you may handle the same thing.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back 40 View Post
    Look guys I agree if there is someone in our home we all agree that most if not all of us would shoot. But we are replying to the original post. I would probably not ask questions, I would take the element of surprise. BUT..... If you went down the road of the OP and you had the guy disarmed and proned out it would read murder to a jury if you took the shot. I know we are all really tough guys and gals here but at some point boom boom boom isn't always the best option.
    I don't remember typing anything about being proned out. You're adding to the scenario. We can add any what ifs or changes we wish but in the original post he is not proned out. He is standing in front of you and he dropped the only weapon you can see. You yell "Don't move" and he moves. What do you do? As for me, well I'm pretty sure you know what I'll do already.

    To Tacman: I honestly have no idea what you think a 2 AM wake up call will be like for you. For me it will be scary as hell. I'm not John Rambo, I'm a dad. I intend to survive (and be around to raise my kids) by any means neccesary. If a drunk gets shot at 2 AM because he broke into my house then so be it. In that moment he will cease to be a "harmless drunk" and be a lethal threat to my family and to me.

    On the other hand if it is completely obvious that he is not a threat (passed out on my couch/ on the floor puking in my hallway?) then obviously I wouldn't shoot him. I'm just wondering how you think that in the wee hours of the morning you're going to fully know this guys intentions and KNOW he's not a threat. I think you are selling the fear and surprise of the situation short.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  8. #37
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    Not selling the fear and surprise aspect short not one bit. I have been in uniform carrying a gun for a long time in both the states and sandboxes around the world it is simply a matter of how much I would let the fear and surprise of the situation dictate what I would do.
    Not saying you are wrong in whatever you do. You have the absolute right to protect your family from anyone attempting to hurt them I am simply saying that I would identify the person/threat/situation first before firing.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #38
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    Ok, first off BG awakens me at 2AM the first interaction he is going to have with me is Bang Bang Bang, I'm not giving up my tactical advantage by making contact. doesn't matter to me if he lays his weapon down because when the action is over with that gun is getting kicked away from his reach. "He surrendered? Says who? Prove it, that gun over there has his finger prints not mine."

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Intruder in my house at 2:00 AM?

    Dead intruder at 2:00 AM.

    The End.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #40
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    The easy part is that everyone gets to make their own choice. The, possibly, not so easy part is that they have to live with the ramifications of their choice, both legal and otherwise.

    A great part of that choice will depend on training, experience and perception of any given situation.

    I believe it was "Hombre" (Paul Newman) that said, "You do what you do, I do what I do." Seems appropriate here.

  12. #41
    Member Array Back 40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncsteveh View Post
    Ok, first off BG awakens me at 2AM the first interaction he is going to have with me is Bang Bang Bang, I'm not giving up my tactical advantage by making contact. doesn't matter to me if he lays his weapon down because when the action is over with that gun is getting kicked away from his reach. "He surrendered? Says who? Prove it, that gun over there has his finger prints not mine."
    ok, you killed him, good job. Don't you have something in between your ears for a reason. To have such canned answers is anlittle scarry. Things are dynamic they change there are thousands of different ways things could go down. It amazing to think that you might have to engage your brain other than just pulling a trigger.

    I have no doubt in my mind that yes I would kill someone in my home, no doubt at all. I also have no doubt that I would try my best to in all of the information that I can to judge shoot no shoot. Nothing in this world is black or white and neither should the decision to take a life.

  13. #42
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    Guantes you are absolutely right what you do may not be the same thing I do in the same situation.
    NCSteveh you do whatever you gotta do I guess and deal with the moral and legal ramifications later.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Let me check my "retsupt's Home Invasion/Robbery Rules" sheet...just a minute...

    Let's see...

    Home invader, armed...Boom-boom!
    Home invader, unarmed...Boom-boom!
    Home invader, armed, but drops his weapon...Boom-boom!
    Home robber climbs through window, armed...Boom-boom!
    Home robber climbs through window, unarmed...Boom-boom!
    Home robber turns his back to me to hide behind couch...Boom-Boom!

    Bottom line...there is really no way to identify a weapon...anyone invading my space must be assumed to have a weapon or he/she would not have been so bold as to enter a private dwelling 'unprepared'.

    Yep, I got the stranger in my home pretty well covered...I'm assuming that ANYONE unidentified/uninvited in my home is not there to sell girl scout cookies. His/her midnight free shopping license is getting revoked... I'm just sayin'...
    Great post. According to the OP/variation BG is unaware of me and I'm not sure he has a weapon....I'm NOT announcing myself and I'm NOT giving any verbal commands nor am I asking if he has any weapons. The BG is in MY house, at 2:00 a.m., uninvited, entering through my locked doors or windows, whether he is drunk or sober, whether he has made a mistake if he's drunk and entered the wrong home, or whether he's made a mistake in choosing my house to burglarize...he shall reap the consequences of his actions. I have not trained to defend myself, nor gone over the scenarios in my mind to develop my mindset, just to hesitate in wondering as to his armed state or mental state. The safety of myself and my family is of paramount importance.

    As to the second part of the OP...the BG is armed, has dropped his gun, and I've called 911....First of all, as soon as it's all over, I shall book myself an appointment with my doctor to discuss why i gave any commands to an armed BG in regards to dropping their weapon, rather than letting him suffer the consequences of his choices. But, since I did give commands, he would be held at gunpoint, with no attempt to cuff or restrain, 911 remaining online with me during the situation, and if...IF he made any move either towards his weapon or me, then again I would give the command "I SAID DON"T MOVE" as I was administering the reasons for following my commands. Since 911 would be still on the line, they would have heard it all, especially the part where I "feared for my life as he reached for his weapon on the floor" when he moved. JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  15. #44
    Member Array 9mmPro's Avatar
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    Have a tactical flashlight at ready, same time turn it on and shine it at his face and then tell him to not move of you will use deadly force.

    its not a pretty sight after you shoot someone in your house , best bet is to try to end the situation quickly as safely as possible but before you do try dialing 911 on your cell in case something goes wrong.
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Great post. According to the OP/variation BG is unaware of me and I'm not sure he has a weapon....I'm NOT announcing myself and I'm NOT giving any verbal commands nor am I asking if he has any weapons. The BG is in MY house, at 2:00 a.m., uninvited, entering through my locked doors or windows, whether he is drunk or sober, whether he has made a mistake if he's drunk and entered the wrong home, or whether he's made a mistake in choosing my house to burglarize...he shall reap the consequences of his actions. I have not trained to defend myself, nor gone over the scenarios in my mind to develop my mindset, just to hesitate in wondering as to his armed state or mental state. The safety of myself and my family is of paramount importance.

    As to the second part of the OP...the BG is armed, has dropped his gun, and I've called 911....First of all, as soon as it's all over, I shall book myself an appointment with my doctor to discuss why i gave any commands to an armed BG in regards to dropping their weapon, rather than letting him suffer the consequences of his choices. But, since I did give commands, he would be held at gunpoint, with no attempt to cuff or restrain, 911 remaining online with me during the situation, and if...IF he made any move either towards his weapon or me, then again I would give the command "I SAID DON"T MOVE" as I was administering the reasons for following my commands. Since 911 would be still on the line, they would have heard it all, especially the part where I "feared for my life as he reached for his weapon on the floor" when he moved. JMO
    Exaaaaactly, First Sgt.





    Oh no wait, I meant we're supposed to bake them cookies, I forgot....
    Stop acting like we're fightin' for "freedom". We are ALREADY....free.

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