Do you shoot him?

This is a discussion on Do you shoot him? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 9MMare Huh....someone else who chose to...needed to...draw his gun but also chose not to shoot....because he didnt have to. Well done sir! ...

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Thread: Do you shoot him?

  1. #61
    Member Array SCALPHUNTER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Huh....someone else who chose to...needed to...draw his gun but also chose not to shoot....because he didnt have to.

    Well done sir!
    I fully believe in protecting yourself, your family, or even a stranger if necessary, with deadly force if it's warranted, but you should never take a life just because the law is "technically" on your side. The whole purpose of having a CCW permit is to "protect" yourself and your family from harm, not to be used as a personal "hunting license."
    "God hears all prayers, even when the answer is No."

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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Shoot.
    Don't think, shoot.
    Don't wonder about his intentions, shoot.
    Don't make him a cup of tea, shoot.

    No offense but you really need to get some training and rethink your attitude and mindset.
    I believe you may need to follow your own advice. He who snoozes, looses.

    Thanks for your service.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCALPHUNTER View Post
    I fully believe in protecting yourself, your family, or even a stranger if necessary, with deadly force if it's warranted, but you should never take a life just because the law is "technically" on your side. The whole purpose of having a CCW permit is to "protect" yourself and your family from harm, not to be used as a personal "hunting license."
    There are those who would disagree. Some people might consider it your civic duty to remove a predator from society. If the law is on your side that is.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  5. #64
    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
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    Didn't read the thread.... but yep. If you have to ask your to late.

  6. #65
    Member Array SCALPHUNTER's Avatar
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    Read Entry 58, and you'll know the whole story.
    "God hears all prayers, even when the answer is No."

  7. #66
    Member Array Bricktop's Avatar
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    In my house at 2 am? I am scared, there for I shoot to kill, welcome to my house.
    VERITAS AEQUITAS

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    lots of legal issues here, one being neutralized the threat, a armed intender is a deadly one, but once he drops his weapon, if he tried to split the scene, basically there is nothing you can legally do short of a (not too smart) football tackle to stop him.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  9. #68
    Member Array SCALPHUNTER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    There are those who would disagree. Some people might consider it your civic duty to remove a predator from society. If the law is on your side that is.
    See Entry # 58 and then you'll know the whole story...and I agree to some extent, but in my situation I would have had to shoot a retreating, and possibly unarmed person in the back, and I will not do that. Killing another person is not something to be taken lightly. If he's threatening your life, or he's inside your home, or trys to take your vehicle by force, yes by all means, do what you have to do, but you don't kill a fleeing suspect that is outside and has turned his back and is running away.
    "God hears all prayers, even when the answer is No."

  10. #69
    Member Array Bricktop's Avatar
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    I think it wouldnt look good with holes in his back, if he even flinched to run what do you do?
    VERITAS AEQUITAS

  11. #70
    Member Array SCALPHUNTER's Avatar
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    My situation happened in my driveway and very quickly. By the time I swung around with my pistol, he had already seen the gun, hollered not to shoot him, and then he was already turned and running away, and like I said, I never saw a weapon.
    "God hears all prayers, even when the answer is No."

  12. #71
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowpointHank View Post
    I remember a thread where a presumed bad guy broke into a home, only to find out he was falling down drunk and had the wrong house. While he was no threat to anyone and just trying to find his bed, he was in a strangers home. Should he pay with his life?
    That's a fair point. But, how do you know that he is drunk and lost?

    A stranger in my house at 02:00 had better sober up and follow commands VERY quickly.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  13. #72
    Member Array sfl1972's Avatar
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    2:00am? In my home? I don't know you? BUH BYE.
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  14. #73
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    Well this is certainly a divided issue.
    21Bubba I dont know exactly what you mean by your comment but if you are implying that I need to train more to deal with a home intruder or train more to decide whether to shoot an unarmed person I will beg to differ. I have been a LE trainer for 27 years in the states and abroad and have logged thousands of hours of training.
    I train constantly both here and when I am at home. 10 days of my 30 day leave is committed to taking organized classes from some of the best schools in the country just to keep my skills and knowledge fresh that is what keeps me alive.
    You NEVER, EVER draw your weapon without thinking and you damn sure dont shoot without thinking. Even if that thought is a micro second long you must look at the entire situation before pulling the trigger. Observe, Orient, Decide, Act the OODA loop if you dont know what it is google it and learn from it. You determine if there is an actual threat, not just by mere presence of the person, and act accordingly.
    Every action you take you have to be able to articulate what you did for the jury, LE, the prosecutor and anyone else concerned. If you think the attitude of "Oh I didnt think I just shot, he was in my house and I have that right" is correct you will be made out as the person waiting in hiding to ambush an intruder so you can put a notch on your gun.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #74
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    You NEVER, EVER draw your weapon without thinking and you damn sure dont shoot without thinking. Even if that thought is a micro second long you must look at the entire situation before pulling the trigger. Observe, Orient, Decide, Act the OODA loop if you dont know what it is google it and learn from it. You determine if there is an actual threat, not just by mere presence of the person, and act accordingly.
    Tacman, you sir have expressed in one paragraph what I was unable to in many post in this and other forums, and for that I thank you.

    I'm not an advocate of shooting first and asking questions later, but there is some truth to, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck." Also, don't be suprised if the one acting like a duck gets shot during duck season. I have thought of situations, and pre-decided if you will, what situations will get a lethal response from me if I am so able. If the situation changes, then my response changes.

    In my situation it would be safe to say that any unknown in my house, after dark, if not an invited guest is there to do harm to the occupants. The barriers to gaining entry would pretty much ensure that, thus my response may seem as I'm willing to shoot when I'm really not. If I was wanting to shoot I wouldn't have the barriers to entry that I do have in place. I'm able, and will if forced, but have no desire to do so.

    The same could also apply, and does, to people gaining entry during the daylight hours, as door and windows are routinely locked. Daylight hours gives us greater visibility, and perhaps allow one to make a better determination of who is and isn't a threat, or how great a threat they are.

    I've never made a concious decision to draw my weapon in any of my armed encounters but each time I have drawn it in a real life encounter has been in response to a verified or articulable threat. Unlike some others I am not "trigger happy" and only want to stop the action that is threatening the safety of me and mine. If that can be done with words, so be it, but at the same time, one has to weigh the very real possibility of giving up more than they gain. One poster saw two intruders to his home, when there were in fact three.

    Training and life expirience has taught me that it's too easy to die. Since I want to avoid that, I tend to try and not get into armed encounters, but if I do find myself in another one I want to take and hold the tactical advantage. I tend to be ruled "Saved by tactics" instead of saved by speed or skill at shooting, or at least that's how it was ruled at my last high dollar gunschool.

    Take care sir and stay safe, and thank you once again for your post.

    Biker

  16. #75
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    Thanks BikerRN I just wish others would get it. If there is a legitimate threat at that moment, eliminate it not a problem with that, the key words being threat and that moment.
    In so many of the posts the BG is shot dead in the blink of an eye and the shooter goes back to eating his cheesecake but they have no other training or experience beyond going to the range once a month and shooting a fixed target at close range without stress or their CCW class but they think they will be able to do all this under stress and under attack.
    I realize there are LEO's, retired combat vets that are members of this forum that have training and experience that needs to be past on to others but many are frustrated as I am getting with the macho gunslinger attitudes and responses on here. One has even said it is your duty to eliminate the BG's if the law is on your side. One must always remember "If you give no mercy, you can expect no mercy".
    Defend your life and family great but do it from a real threat not an imagined one or to fufill some walter mitty fantasy.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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