Do you shoot him?

This is a discussion on Do you shoot him? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This thread is a spin off from the cuff the BG thread. Instead of a BG that dropped his gun we pick it up with ...

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Thread: Do you shoot him?

  1. #1
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    Do you shoot him?

    This thread is a spin off from the cuff the BG thread. Instead of a BG that dropped his gun we pick it up with this...

    A BG is in your home at 2 AM and you have him in you sights. He is not aware of you yet. You are not sure if he is armed because you haven't seen a weapon. Do you shoot him?



    I think the overwhelming answer to this would be yes. Pow! He is a deadly threat (in a castle doctrine state at least) so I'd shoot him for sure. BOOM, end of story.


    Now back to the other scenario. He was armed and dropped his gun. You are holding him at gun point and have called 911:

    My next question to you is this: Why, if the man WAS armed with at least one weapon and is in your home at two AM, would you not shoot him if he disobeyed a command like "don't move"? Would he no longer be considered a deadly threat to you? Or because he said "I give up"?

    My point in this line of questioning is that we still don't know anything about him except he has one less weapon.

    The question has come up "What if he turns to run?". My answer to that question is BANG! He gets shot the second he moves. I will have no idea he is turning to run, all I'll know is that he is moving (quickly). It will depend on his speed and my reflexes as to where he is when he gets hit (front/side/back).

    There can be no other answer to this question. If you are waiting to find out his intentions you may be the one that ends up bleeding out on the floor.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    A BG is in your home at 2 AM and you have him in you sights. He is not aware of you yet. You are not sure if he is armed because you haven't seen a weapon. Do you shoot him?


    .
    Yes, *after (if) I have identified him* as a threat or someone unknown to me....gun or not. As a woman, an unidentified male in my home uninvited, at nite, is a lethal threat, gun or not. I think that would be considered disparity of force.

    However this isnt a likely scenario for me...my dogs will announce anyone's presense....he'd sure be aware of somethin'.....
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    Now back to the other scenario. He was armed and dropped his gun. You are holding him at gun point and have called 911:

    My next question to you is this: Why, if the man WAS armed with at least one weapon and is in your home at two AM, would you not shoot him if he disobeyed a command like "don't move"? Would he no longer be considered a deadly threat to you? Or because he said "I give up"?

    My point in this line of questioning is that we still don't know anything about him except he has one less weapon.

    The question has come up "What if he turns to run?". My answer to that question is BANG! He gets shot the second he moves. I will have no idea he is turning to run, all I'll know is that he is moving (quickly). It will depend on his speed and my reflexes as to where he is when he gets hit (front/side/back).

    There can be no other answer to this question. If you are waiting to find out his intentions you may be the one that ends up bleeding out on the floor.

    If he dropped his weapon immediately then I would hold him at gunpoint. If he stayed, I'd cover him til the cops came. If he moved his hands like he was reaching into pockets, etc, he'd get shot.

    If he turned to run, I'd let him, with my gun aimed on him the whole way. If he reached for anything (except the doorknob), I'd also shoot.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #4
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    Someone breaking into your house at 2am is NOT collecting for the Red Cross or the Salvation Army and should be considered a threat, and yes I would shoot, after all how long would I take to him to recover his weapon and use it against me or my loved ones.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    This thread is a spin off from the cuff the BG thread. Instead of a BG that dropped his gun we pick it up with this...

    A BG is in your home at 2 AM and you have him in you sights. He is not aware of you yet. You are not sure if he is armed because you haven't seen a weapon. Do you shoot him?



    I think the overwhelming answer to this would be yes. Pow! He is a deadly threat (in a castle doctrine state at least) so I'd shoot him for sure. BOOM, end of story.


    Now back to the other scenario. He was armed and dropped his gun. You are holding him at gun point and have called 911:

    My next question to you is this: Why, if the man WAS armed with at least one weapon and is in your home at two AM, would you not shoot him if he disobeyed a command like "don't move"? Would he no longer be considered a deadly threat to you? Or because he said "I give up"?

    My point in this line of questioning is that we still don't know anything about him except he has one less weapon.

    The question has come up "What if he turns to run?". My answer to that question is BANG! He gets shot the second he moves. I will have no idea he is turning to run, all I'll know is that he is moving (quickly). It will depend on his speed and my reflexes as to where he is when he gets hit (front/side/back).

    There can be no other answer to this question. If you are waiting to find out his intentions you may be the one that ends up bleeding out on the floor.
    Okaay

    1. That depends on tactical positioning, possibly/possibly not. He gets a "FREEZE" command. The slightest movement and he gets a load of buckshot.

    2. To each his own.

    3. Because he would be prone on the ground with a gauge pointed at him from behind and then cuffed.

    4. He won't be doing any running prone and cuffed.

    5. There can nearly always be another answer.

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    Wow well this is just an opinion. Once the threat is gone, i.e. weapon gone, why would you shoot. Yeah he broke into your home, you have confronted him, he has dropped his weapon and has surrendered where is the threat? If he goes for a weapon yes by all means defend yourself. If he runs let him.
    Except for 9MMare who could use the disparity of force only if attacked others castle doctrine or not MAY find themselves in some trouble. Morally living with yourself after shooting an unarmed person because you can might take a little longer to get over.
    Again just an opinion.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  8. #7
    Member Array Wilber's Avatar
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    IMHO...when there is no longer a threat no need to shoot. BUT as soon as the threat is felt again by all means defend you and your family.
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Lethal SD is for Lethal Attacks happening NOW. If that isn't the case then you don't shoot.

  10. #9
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    The one thing that I think alot of people forget is that if you shoot this guy he is going to bleed alot. You are going to have hazmat teams in your home. Your wife and children are going to be terrified even more with a dead guy in the house. You are going to have a ton of damage to your home not to mention the mental health of your family and maybe yourself.

    Please don't think that I am soft. I carry a gun for a reason, and fully accept the reason I carry it. I do believe that if there is anyway that I don't have to shoot someone and not place my family at risk I am going to take it. If there is any risk to my self wife or child I would not think twice, but if I don't have to squeeze off a round I won't.

  11. #10
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    Do you shoot him?

    Why give the BG an even chance when they came into YOUR house at 2am? IMO...ID the threat...act accordingly....you have no responsibility to arrest or detain someone who broke into your home. This is also dependent on your home situation, i.e. teenagers, house guests, etc.
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  12. #11
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    I agree, and there is a really good chAnce that if I find someone in my home at 2am he is probably getting carried out. I just believe that alot of guys do t realize the trauma that this is going to cause the family.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    Lethal SD is for Lethal Attacks happening NOW. If that isn't the case then you don't shoot.
    That was definitely not the overall tone from the other thread. It was more...you made the mistake, I have the right to make sure you know it & never make it again. IMO

    I agree with you tho. That said...if I truly perceive a threat, my safety comes first, period.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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    I agree, some people rant about protecting their family, but forget the damage that can becaused by your child seeing some guys splattered on the kitchen wall. I will use my gun to defend self and family but I won't just because I "can". If the guy makes a move that is any way percieved As agressive no doubt he's done for, but if he surenders face down legs and arms spread looking away from me and doesn't move till the cops show up he will live to see another day.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    This thread is a spin off from the cuff the BG thread. Instead of a BG that dropped his gun we pick it up with this...

    A BG is in your home at 2 AM and you have him in you sights. He is not aware of you yet. You are not sure if he is armed because you haven't seen a weapon. Do you shoot him?

    I would be legal to do so, and may, depending upon the circustances of the situation.

    I think the overwhelming answer to this would be yes. Pow! He is a deadly threat (in a castle doctrine state at least) so I'd shoot him for sure. BOOM, end of story.


    Now back to the other scenario. He was armed and dropped his gun. You are holding him at gun point and have called 911:

    My next question to you is this: Why, if the man WAS armed with at least one weapon and is in your home at two AM, would you not shoot him if he disobeyed a command like "don't move"? Would he no longer be considered a deadly threat to you? Or because he said "I give up"?

    Any movement, after being told "DON'T MOVE" in my command voice would most likley be met with deadly force.

    My point in this line of questioning is that we still don't know anything about him except he has one less weapon.

    The question has come up "What if he turns to run?". My answer to that question is BANG! He gets shot the second he moves. I will have no idea he is turning to run, all I'll know is that he is moving (quickly). It will depend on his speed and my reflexes as to where he is when he gets hit (front/side/back).

    There can be no other answer to this question. If you are waiting to find out his intentions you may be the one that ends up bleeding out on the floor.
    I will presume that anyone entering my home uninvited while it is occupied is capable of dealing with the occupants. It is therefore incumbent upon me to be capable of dealing with such a situation in the manner that most ensures the safety of the occupants.

    I placed my answers in bold.

    Biker

  16. #15
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    Let me check my "retsupt's Home Invasion/Robbery Rules" sheet...just a minute...

    Let's see...

    Home invader, armed...Boom-boom!
    Home invader, unarmed...Boom-boom!
    Home invader, armed, but drops his weapon...Boom-boom!
    Home robber climbs through window, armed...Boom-boom!
    Home robber climbs through window, unarmed...Boom-boom!
    Home robber turns his back to me to hide behind couch...Boom-Boom!

    Bottom line...there is really no way to identify a weapon...anyone invading my space must be assumed to have a weapon or he/she would not have been so bold as to enter a private dwelling 'unprepared'.

    Yep, I got the stranger in my home pretty well covered...I'm assuming that ANYONE unidentified/uninvited in my home is not there to sell girl scout cookies. His/her midnight free shopping license is getting revoked... I'm just sayin'...
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