This did happen but I'm wondering what you folks would have done if it turned ugly. - Page 2

This did happen but I'm wondering what you folks would have done if it turned ugly.

This is a discussion on This did happen but I'm wondering what you folks would have done if it turned ugly. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 I did dial 911 and reported it. Why so many are missing that part I'm not sure. What I'm asking is ...

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Thread: This did happen but I'm wondering what you folks would have done if it turned ugly.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post
    I did dial 911 and reported it. Why so many are missing that part I'm not sure.

    What I'm asking is after that point things turn ugly. Then what do you do? It is simple to say nothing but when real life happens in front of you are you truly going to do nothing and watch someone die?
    Oops forgot the part about the 911 call. While I would never want to stand by and watch someone get killed unless I knew all of the circumstances of the incident I would not be justified in using deadly force.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post
    I did dial 911 and reported it. Why so many are missing that part I'm not sure.

    What I'm asking is after that point things turn ugly. Then what do you do? It is simple to say nothing but when real life happens in front of you are you truly going to do nothing and watch someone die?
    As I said befor I would already be gone. You have already done more than many by calling 911.

  3. #18
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    I will give you my serious opinion. Call 911...like you did and be a good witness...NOTHING MORE. You should be concerned with your safety and the safety of your family. I would have gone inside...make sure you family stays away from the doors and windows and laid low. You could have yelled at them that you called the police, but you stand a chance of getting involved in the fray just doing that.

    I have seen police tackle this kind of situation and it is a mess.

    It was dark. Could you have seen a weapon or who had it?? How do you know the woman wasn't armed. If someone had a weapon you probably wouldn't have known until it was used. What would you have done then? Would you have shot someone? If so who? It is too tangled a web of violence to inject yourself into and get out of "clean".

    So, report...like you did and if the thought that someone may get killed bothers you that much...don't watch and be happy it isn't you or yours. Let the professionals handle this kind of problem.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  4. #19
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    Thing about a scenario like this...*if* you draw a gun (and we do have other options besides a gun, which I also wouldnt use here).....you have to be in fear for your life or for someone else's (in this scenario). Is one of the others facing lethal force?

    Because once you draw a gun...and it doesnt stop the action? Then what do you do? You are standing there with a hammer in your hand and are now a target. And then you need to retreat, period.

    And if you draw and shoot...are you sure you are justified in using lethal force?

    Mostly I think both men fighting (in your scenario) would immediately see you as a threat/witness for the cops....that would be ugly.


    Just some points to consider, because I certainly understand your wish to help if you can.
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    OP, good question that I think all of us have run through our heads as one of the "what if" questions. But I think with what you've described: Night time, dark in a non-lit area, not knowing the people or their situation etc....I think you did very well by just being on the phone with 911.
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  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Call 911 and tell them what is going on. More often than not, my phone is my best weapon.
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  7. #22
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post

    Could I just sit in my car knowing I'm armed and just wait for the police to show up?

    Couldn't do it I'd have to drive away

    Could I just watch another person die knowing I could take action but do nothing about it since my life is not in danger?

    And wouldn't lose a lick of sleep
    Don't know what else to add, I'm not responsible for the world and I'm not willing to incurr the liability

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post
    What if one man simply grabbed a brick from the wall that was close by. What if one of them pulled a knife and started to stab the other?
    First I have say, reverse the rolls. Put yourself in the shoes of the boyfriend, and your walking with your girlfriend, when some nut job jumps the curb and comes after you for whatever reason. You are armed (knife/Gun/etc...) but it is only a one on one fight, the nut job is not armed yet, and you follow the rules of engagement and don't use yours. A guy with CCW, sitting in his car at the 4 way stop, sees the fight and calls 911. Suddenly the nut job picks up a brick and comes after you and you proceed to use your (knife/gun/etc...) to defend yourself. What would you hope the guy in the car would do, based on the info you gave? Remain in the car calling 911? Or, come running at you with a couple of .45's leading the way because he only saw that you used a weapon against someone else, rather than you were only protecting yourself and your girlfriend.

    What you did was the correct thing to do. Call 911 and be a good witness. I would suggest that instead of telling the dispatcher "no, or I don't Know" when they ask if weapons are involved and you are not sure, tell them "possibly", or "maybe - it's dark and hard to see who's armed". It tends to get them there faster. It is not lying, because you are not sure. But it does change how the dispatcher "sees" the fight. Also try to remain on the phone with 911 so that they do have up to date info, and if you for somereason did have to involve yourself further, there is proof that you acted responsibly.

    Hope this helps.
    Remember: When it comes to pulling the trigger, it is ALWAYS the perspective of others which determine if you are a hero, or a criminal.

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratDefsCon View Post
    First I have say, reverse the rolls. Put yourself in the shoes of the boyfriend, and your walking with your girlfriend, when some nut job jumps the curb and comes after you for whatever reason. You are armed (knife/Gun/etc...) but it is only a one on one fight, the nut job is not armed yet, and you follow the rules of engagement and don't use yours. A guy with CCW, sitting in his car at the 4 way stop, sees the fight and calls 911. Suddenly the nut job picks up a brick and comes after you and you proceed to use your (knife/gun/etc...) to defend yourself. What would you hope the guy in the car would do, based on the info you gave? Remain in the car calling 911? Or, come running at you with a couple of .45's leading the way because he only saw that you used a weapon against someone else, rather than you were only protecting yourself and your girlfriend...
    THANK YOU!!

    If you do not know the parties involved, and were not there from the very first second the two of them met, stay the out of it.

    911 - observe and report.
    Sticks

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    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    If I knew the party being attacked well and could tell who was the aggressor was. I might intervene on their behalf... in this situation however its none of my business. if a friend of mine on the sidewalk coming to my house got jumped yes I would intervene (probably without my weapon though unless there are a lot of them)
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quicksabre View Post
    Yes, it's tough but having that CC permit does not make you a LEO. It gives you the ability to defend yourself by using deadly force. That's it.
    I don't know if this is a state specific thing or not but in NC you can use deadly force to protect someone else if they have the right to use deadly force to protect themselves.

    That said, I would probably not invoke that right to aid a complete stranger in a situation like this. Call me selfish but I don't want to spend the next 6 months in court defending my decision.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

  12. #27
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    I think in many cases, just letting the offending parties know that 911 has been called is enough to put an end to it, at least from the few experiences I've had. If something like this happened in my front yard, 911 and nothing more, unless the fight spilled, for some reason, into my house. Beyond that, it ain't my problem.
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  13. #28
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    OK. Way too many people read too much into the "Use of force to defend another person"

    If you are going to intervene in something using that as your justification, you had damn well better know everything that is going on, as in you saw and heard the event unfold from the beginning, even if that event started 3 years ago between the two parties.

    Even something that is seemingly clear cut as a stereotyped looking BG holding another person at gunpoint (maybe and undercover cop making an arrest on a hot chick in business attire for drug sales).

    If you don't know what is going on, you are going to be like the police, 99 times out of 100 you are not going to be able to get involved to stop or prevent anything, and keep yourself out of trouble.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #29
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    Does anyone realize that there are alternatives to deadly force?

    I too would report and observe, but if you really feel you have to get involved, there's always pepper spray! I never leave home without it. As my CHL instructor explained, using pepper spray will resolve 99% of confrontations, and if you do use lethal force, you can show that you tried to prevent things from going that far.

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas solo View Post
    Does anyone realize that there are alternatives to deadly force?

    I too would report and observe, but if you really feel you have to get involved, there's always pepper spray! I never leave home without it. As my CHL instructor explained, using pepper spray will resolve 99% of confrontations, and if you do use lethal force, you can show that you tried to prevent things from going that far.
    did your chl instructor give you the source for his speculative instruction?...

    pepper spray could also turn all combatants on you...chances are if a fight broke out because the party walking decided not to escape when the car stopped to confront them then you have 2 willing parties fighting....

    you dont know who the good guy is and whether there is one or not...if you go to guns who you gonna shoot?...if you use pepper spray how much time is it gonna buy you and if it doesnt affect one you have signed a death sentence for the other leaving him ata disadvantage...if they trun on you you have created a situation where deadly force may be your only alternative....

    call the police and inform them that you have done so "the police are on their way"....if that doesnt change anything there probably isnt anything else you can say or do that will without exposing yourself to a situation that may not turn out as rosey as you would like...

    nobody wants to watch anybody get killed...you arent witnessing a mugging...youre witnessing a fight between 2 individuals who have decided to settle something this way...people are getting mugged and attacked every day in lots of places...put on your sash or badge and wander the dark streets and alleys to save them if thats the way you feel...but i have a feeling youre gonna be disappointed in the end...you arent going to save the world and just may end up walking into a hornets nest you should have avoided...

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