When Tacti-cool doesn't pay - Page 3

When Tacti-cool doesn't pay

This is a discussion on When Tacti-cool doesn't pay within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by novasig226r Maybe I'm just new. Perhaps it's because I'm dumb. What the heck is the difference between 5.11 "tactical gear" and my ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by novasig226r View Post
    Maybe I'm just new. Perhaps it's because I'm dumb.

    What the heck is the difference between 5.11 "tactical gear" and my cargo pants from LL Bean or REI? What's the difference between the EOTAC shirts and the ones I get from LL Bean or REI? What's the difference between the belts? What about the "tactical vest" in the store and the fleece vest I have in my closet? If I'm hiking the AT in Shenandoah National Park and I'm wearing a pair of "tacical" boots, would I be less of a mall ninja had I simply worn my Timberland hiking boots?

    I don't mean to sound condescending, but those all look quite similar, both in look and feel. The one glaring difference that I can see is the "ninja"-like accessibility that the "tactical" gear gives to my carry weapon that the LL Bean doesn't offer. Otherwise, I feel the need to be enlightened.
    All the gear by 5.11 and other lines that produce "operator level" clothing/apparrel/accessories field test(in afghanistain/iraq/ by police here in the US/federal government) and produce these items for one specific purpose. To make the life of the "operator" easier, to provide quality equipment that won't break down under stress, and provide a level of reliability you won't ever get out of casual LL bean clothing or anything you will find at your local mall.

    These items are purpose built with for aggressive, punishing, combat situations.


  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    "Just this past year here in Central Florida two men were victims of strong arm robbery in their own garage after having visited a local gun range. The criminals (no, there is no other word for them) were in the range/shop and had targeted these two because of their equipment. Why the two men who had just practiced their skills did not fight back, God only knows. But what I really want to know is if a criminal is willing to approach two men, obviously armed with the latest cool guy gear, what could possibly be a deterrent? The honest answer is there really is no deterrent. They've already crossed the line and shown absolute disregard even when knowledgeable of a victim having a firearm on person."

    "because of there equipment"....really....and it turns into a "they wear stuff" thread....

    so how many guys here carry $1200 carry guns to the range and have nice range bags with multiple guns and valuable equipment in them?...couldnt somebody see you firing $3000-$4000 worth of guns at the range with your buddy and decide youd make a good target?...

    they were picked at a range for their equipment...i dont care if they were wearing j crew (heck....if that were the case peope would be following high school students home all the time) or friggin cutoff jean shorts...i'm pretty sure they were targeted because they had some desireable stuff and maybe even drove a nice car....but they were targeted at the range...where everyone here exposes their collection of guns everytime they go shooting and could very well be followed home (can the situational awareness crap...there are criminals that are smarter than you)....

    i know some guys who wear 5.11 pants and even vests sometimes...not uncommon to see them in nice clothes or just sweat pants...some of them are law enforcement and all of them wear the stuff because its functional, durable and very comfortable...and they handle guns like you wouldnt believe...

    so lets stop hindsighting the guys who got robbed and think about the next time we're at the range that someone might be marking us....they might not strike when you get home...they might wait till you leave the house knowing whats inside...because you showed it to them at the range...its the one place where most are proud to be walking around with thousands of dollars worth of equipment to show off...i know...its just tools to you...cmon...youre prouder than that of it and you dont mind somebody peeking into your lane to see what youre shooting or how well you do it....

    wait...do you guys keep your lawns overgrown and non-functioning car in your driveway on blocks also to throw crooks off the scent?...you are clever....

    again...they were targeted at the range....not the local mall...never mind the nra sticker or glock emblem in the back window...someone saw what they owned

  3. #33
    Member Array novasig226r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    All the gear by 5.11 and other lines that produce "operator level" clothing/apparrel/accessories field test(in afghanistain/iraq/ by police here in the US/federal government) and produce these items for one specific purpose. To make the life of the "operator" easier, to provide quality equipment that won't break down under stress, and provide a level of reliability you won't ever get out of casual LL bean clothing or anything you will find at your local mall.

    These items are purpose built with for aggressive, punishing, combat situations.
    When I spend my money, I want things to be of quality and be reliable. If this "operator level" gear is durable then it seems practical, from my wallet's point of view. I see khaki cargo pants on 5.11 and EOTAC that look similar to LL Bean, and if those outlast the Bean then it's money well spent. What visibly distinguishes "normal" cargo pants from "mall ninja pants" to the causal observer?

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post

    <snip>

    so lets stop hindsighting the guys who got robbed and think about the next time we're at the range that someone might be marking us....they might not strike when you get home...they might wait till you leave the house knowing whats inside...because you showed it to them at the range...its the one place where most are proud to be walking around with thousands of dollars worth of equipment to show off...i know...its just tools to you...cmon...youre prouder than that of it and you dont mind somebody peeking into your lane to see what youre shooting or how well you do it....

    wait...do you guys keep your lawns overgrown and non-functioning car in your driveway on blocks also to throw crooks off the scent?...you are clever....

    again...they were targeted at the range....not the local mall...never mind the nra sticker or glock emblem in the back window...someone saw what they owned
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  5. #35
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    It does make me chuckle a little bit too. Being in the industry since penny loafers were cool, I don't know any real professional "operators" (that term makes me chuckle too) that actually wear the stuff in the catalogs aimed at chumps who don't know any better. I've been in special operations both federal and local agencies for a long time, I buy my pants at the same store as anyone else. I also put them on one leg at a time too. Everybody that I have worked with does the same too. And I don't carry "gear". I carry a pistol and some other stuff. Gears are in my car, not on my belt.

    The difference is between a professional and the amateur is whats between the ears. The pants don't make the man. I'll leave the gimmicks on the shelf and buy clothing that suits me.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #36
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by novasig226r View Post
    When I spend my money, I want things to be of quality and be reliable. If this "operator level" gear is durable then it seems practical, from my wallet's point of view. I see khaki cargo pants on 5.11 and EOTAC that look similar to LL Bean, and if those outlast the Bean then it's money well spent. What visibly distinguishes "normal" cargo pants from "mall ninja pants" to the causal observer?
    Many of these "operator apparel" companies specifically design clothing to look just like street clothes. Except you will find they are fitted with special features that are hidden from the view of the public eye. Such as extra, purpose built pockets, special linings and stitching patterns that strengthen the gear, material compositions that are stronger and more durable than casual clothing, yet looks identical.

    Truth be told, 5.11 purposely designs alot of clothing for people to wear on an every day basis with all of the features above, and not look like some kind of a commando. You really won't be able to notice unless you buy the stuff that looks overtly militant, and wasn't designed with street wear in mind, but for more intense situations such as combat and/or training.

    You might notice a small logo that says "5.11" somewhere on the pants. Usually the logo is very small and not in a place people will ever notice or take the time to bend over and get a good look at. In fact many of these companies that design "tactical" or "self defense oriented" apparel don't put the logo on the outside of the items at all, to make them even more inconspicuous.

    http://www.511tactical.com/browse/Ho...:50101/I/74290

    Typical pair of pants. They don't look militant or overtly tactically glamorous. Just a pair of pants with an extra pocket on the side, right? Don't be intimidated by the price though, shop around online or at your local store that stocks these items, you can find them for much cheaper. Never pay full retail on anything, it's a fast way to go broke.

  7. #37
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    It does make me chuckle a little bit too. Being in the industry since penny loafers were cool, I don't know any real professional "operators" (that term makes me chuckle too) that actually wear the stuff in the catalogs aimed at chumps who don't know any better. I've been in special operations both federal and local agencies for a long time, I buy my pants at the same store as anyone else. I also put them on one leg at a time too. Everybody that I have worked with does the same too. And I don't carry "gear". I carry a pistol and some other stuff. Gears are in my car, not on my belt.
    I was using the word "operator" because that's the buzz word used in the industry, I guess. I don't buy any of this stuff, I just wear regular clothes. The most gear I bring with me on a daily basis is my carry gun and maybe an extra mag or two depending on where I'm heading that day.

    I'd rather spend my money on training than specialized pants and vests. Getting trained keeps you alive, specialized pants don't.

    However you can't discredit the function and durability of purpose built apparel.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    The difference is between a professional and the amateur is whats between the ears. The pants don't make the man. I'll leave the gimmicks on the shelf and buy clothing that suits me.
    ^^ This.

  8. #38
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tysonc View Post
    Have you ever been at the mall and seen an "adventurous" type with a "discrete" carry vest and some 5.11's on and thought, "Geeze, could he be any more obvious"?I know you've had to have seen this guy somewhere before. He's advertising to the world that he has a gun and some cool guy gear. Unaware to himself what he is not showing us is that he is a skilled marksman or real world operator, because those guys don't have to play dress up to go to Piggly Wiggly. The problem here is he not only appears to be "militant" or hostile to the general public, but beyond that he has now isolated himself to be victimized for crimes of opportunity to be committed by an increasingly aware and brazen criminal element.

    Just this past year here in Central Florida two men were victims of strong arm robbery in their own garage after having visited a local gun range. The criminals (no, there is no other word for them) were in the range/shop and had targeted these two because of their equipment. Why the two men who had just practiced their skills did not fight back, God only knows. But what I really want to know is if a criminal is willing to approach two men, obviously armed with the latest cool guy gear, what could possibly be a deterrent? The honest answer is there really is no deterrent. They've already crossed the line and shown absolute disregard even when knowledgeable of a victim having a firearm on person.

    Now, I know some of you might be thinking, "that's an isolated incident, my tactical gear let's criminals know I mean business." Well, yeah, I suppose you could be right in some if not most instances. Especially when the criminals are ignorant punks who prey on the weak. But why put it out there, what are you proving to anyone else? Couldn't you be just as safe or ready while carrying your weapon and gear in a more casual and truly discrete manner?

    At one time I actually subscribed to the "gear is deterrent" school of thought. However, now that the line was crossed so close to home, I follow these simple rules.

    1. Be a grey man

    There are distinct advantages to appearing as though you are every day Jack and Jane going about your business. It may sound cold but you have the law of averages on your side. Do not isolate yourself for victimization by advertising your goods.

    2. Be alert

    Keep your head on a swivel and take note of unusual occurrences and suspicious activity. If you feel a situation isn't exactly safe, retreat to a secure place. Remember that your best defensive action is always avoidance.

    3. Don't get caught with your pants down

    While going about your business avoid carrying objects like bags or boxes that take both hands and try to keep your strong hand open. If loading large objects into your vehicle, ask the store if you can pull up to the front door. Minimize time with a cell phone to your ear as it not only broadcasts that you're not paying attention, but can effect your equilibrium as well.
    4. Your car is not a billboard

    Do not keep stickers or emblems that might indicate a firearm or other gear being inside your vehicle. Showcase who you are via social networking sites if you care that much because though you may have all your gear on person, a criminal won't hesitate to bust a window and check for themselves.

    To reiterate, it is always better to actively avoid conflict. Do not single yourself out as a possible victim by trying to impress others with your ninja style.
    Great post, save all the pro-gun stickers for your gun cases and gun storage units. I wouldn't even place them on any items in my house and on my car as they are an invitation to would be robbers. As for any gun/2nd Amendment related clothing or any tactical wear, I simply wear them at home. If you wanna wear gun related clothing to the range, make sure you go straight to it and back home w/o any stops along the way or just simply change it over to regular clothes. Tactical wear such as BDUs, they are ok but try not to make it a daily habit as you go about. To go to an outdoor range, you don't want to wear your best clothes and ruin them. You don't have to dress tactical but wear something that you are comfortable wearing and not afraid to get dirty in. As always, I also like to practice shooting from the ground than just standing up.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tysonc View Post
    4. Your car is not a billboard

    Do not keep stickers or emblems that might indicate a firearm or other gear being inside your vehicle. Showcase who you are via social networking sites if you care that much because though you may have all your gear on person, a criminal won't hesitate to bust a window and check for themselves.
    Absolutely. That's why you'll never seen an NRA bumper sticker on my vehicle or especially any of the "hoo-rah!" type statements. No "Insured by Smith & Wesson" stickers for me.
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  10. #40
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    It sounds like a lot of you have already let the BGs win.

    Granted that common sense should be used but when you let the BGs dictate what you can wear or what stickers are on your car then you have already lost the battle.

    I'm 54 years old and I wear a military hair cut. Using the OP's logic I must be broadcasting that I'm a BA armed and looking for trouble.

    I will not let the BGs dictate how I dress, what vehicle I drive or what stickers/accessories are on it.

  11. #41
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    Tommy Bahama or Guy Harvey shirt, cargo shorts, Sperry Top Siders, Ocean Pacific sunglasses and a Grand Slam Sport Fishing Supply ball cap. That's my Tactical Cool.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    It does make me chuckle a little bit too. Being in the industry since penny loafers were cool, I don't know any real professional "operators" (that term makes me chuckle too) that actually wear the stuff in the catalogs aimed at chumps who don't know any better. I've been in special operations both federal and local agencies for a long time, I buy my pants at the same store as anyone else. I also put them on one leg at a time too. Everybody that I have worked with does the same too. And I don't carry "gear". I carry a pistol and some other stuff. Gears are in my car, not on my belt.

    The difference is between a professional and the amateur is whats between the ears. The pants don't make the man. I'll leave the gimmicks on the shelf and buy clothing that suits me.

    The only place I've seen most of this stuff is in Kuwait and Iraq being worn by old, fat retired military guys over there as contractors. I suppose you could refer to the guys as operators. They operate projectors and powerpoint slides, they operate NTVs, they operate ranges... Nothing against them. They serve their purpose, and it's less Soldiers needed to do those jobs, but they do look like a 5.11/Eotac catalog.

    I agree with the OP's point, which is tone it down. I don't try to blend, I don't try not to blend. I'm a middle class white guy, by default, I dress like a middle class white guy. That generally includes cargos and untucked polos or light weight button downs in the summer. The only use I've found for "tactical" pants is the elastic side panels. I have a few of the less obvious ones because I carry IWB, and it's more comfortable to buy pants that fit, but have a little give from the elastic for when I'm carrying.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    Tommy Bahama or Guy Harvey shirt, cargo shorts, Sperry Top Siders, Ocean Pacific sunglasses and a Grand Slam Sport Fishing Supply ball cap. That's my Tactical Cool.
    Forget the guns, I'm coming for your boat! Funny that you can get an idea of what folks are into by their clothes. It's not just tacticool and gun guys. I've never really had a credible source for clothes or stickers causing break ins for guns. But a few spots I fly fish have had cars with high end fly fishing gear stickers targeted for break ins. Not just guns folks. I would actually rather put a gun sticker on my car than a fly fishing gear sticker. There are a couple generic ones, but no orvis, sage, or winston.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  14. #44
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    Hilo Hattie's, Tevas Cabella's shorts and hat. I look like exactly what I am a middle aged grand father

    I will say that 5.11 makes good EMT pants though

  15. #45
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    But I like the tactical BVDs. Gots plenty of room.
    Semper Fi

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