Surrendering your weapon
This is a discussion on Surrendering your weapon within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; No, if you shoot well and practice regularly, you can hit the X at 36 feet. That's not a "difficult" shot. On the other hand, ...
June 22nd, 2010 03:47 PM
I used to squirrel hunt with a .22 pistol. I would often kill a limit, most with headshots. One shot most of the time was enough. Hitting an X at 36 feet is not even a hard shot if you know your gun and where it shoots. I've shot squirrels in the eyes at much further ranges.
No, if you shoot well and practice regularly, you can hit the X at 36 feet. That's not a "difficult" shot. On the other hand, can you put all 6 rounds from a .357 snubbie into that X such that they only leave one bullet-sized hole? Not even one flier? Not one of them 2 inches to the left?
In reality though...it dosent matter if you can or cant put 6 shots into a dime at x amount of feet. What matters most is the first shot. I'm thinking that a bullet in the face will at least clear the attacker from the hostage. If you need to shoot again to stop the threat, it ought to be easier.
It is a test. Every shot you take is a test.
This isn't a question for the fellow who will say, "yes, I make that exact shot all day, every day and don't assume I have your limitations," rather it's the test for the person who wants to make that shot.
The guy already shot one person and has threatened to shoot my wife. While I understand that some people may see that as a blessing in disquise, I have learned to enjoy my wife of 40 years. Heck, I'm just now getting her broke in right. If I have the shot I am taking it.
Add in the hinky hostage-taker who's moving around, using the wife as a shield, and I think the only realistic option here is to keep the standoff going and hope she can drop to give you a line of fire.
THAT we can agree on!
Surrendering the weapon is not a good idea.
June 22nd, 2010 04:21 PM
Im sorry but IDPA is a little different than combat shooting. Im not flaming here just making a point. You have 36 feet, which in reality isnt that far, Your wife is being held against her will. You will be tense, your heart will be pounding in your chest, the adrenaline will be so high I doubt you will hear or see anything else outside your wife.
Originally Posted by 9MMare
I train in a combat shooting style, were all of these factors are taken into account, and practiced. I will be taking the open shot. I love my wife to much to let her die at the hands of a stranger.
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
June 22nd, 2010 04:26 PM
Or if you decide not to shoot and he kills your spouse you will be living with that decision too. Lots to think about either way you go.
Originally Posted by 9MMare
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
June 22nd, 2010 04:36 PM
I dont know about yall...but if my wife was being held against her will by some scumbag, she'd be yelling for me to SHOOT !
And if by the grace of God, it ended and all was well and I didnt shoot, I'd be hearing about it the rest of my life, that I can assure you.
June 22nd, 2010 05:02 PM
While the details are not sufficient to know exactly what went down, had they a shot, I wonder how many of these officers wish they would have taken it.
June 22nd, 2010 09:59 PM
36 feet is a long way, and its a very small target. Even if I can hit that target on a relaxing day at the range doesn't mean I will hit it now.
I would keep my gun pointed at the BG and walk up to him to close the distance. He should be able to figure out that shooting a hostage will not stop the threat coming towards him. He will most likely try to turn the gun on me, which will mean that the gun is not on my wife or kids. This means I may have to take a bullet to save them. But, hopefully my wife will resort to her training (because she prepared ahead of time!) and attack the guy in some way that she can escape, which will distract him while I aim and take the shot.
Its not a good situation any way you look at it, but dropping my gun will most likely make the problem worse. In reality, I wouldn't have been so quick to draw my gun, that was a real dumb move. I would have waited for him to become distracted. But, its your scenario, so I went with it the best I could!
Last edited by romansten9; June 22nd, 2010 at 10:03 PM.
June 22nd, 2010 10:02 PM
I've been wondering if the right strategy in this case (if my wife doesn't shoot him) is to close to engage. I charge him, gun up, just like the Tueller drill. The advantages are that he doesn't expect it, I close distance rapidly, and he instinctively will turn his attention and his gun towards me. Hopefully, this also allows her to drop or move clear which greatly simplifies the shot. Would I take a bullet if I thought it would save my wife and kids? Yeah, I think I would. One way or another, that guy is going down.
An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay
June 22nd, 2010 10:14 PM
or you charging causes him to pull the trigger on your wife and then turn to you...
June 22nd, 2010 11:14 PM
the bullet from the end of my gun can outrun me... I think I'll send it in my stead...
June 23rd, 2010 12:31 AM
We always preach and practice, to create distance between us and the BG.
In this scenario, how would one close the distance, to get a better shot?
Everyone is different in their perspective of imminent danger. In my mind, the guy is dead, I've got to find and/or create a way to do it. There is no retreat, no give up, not in this situation.
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
June 23rd, 2010 01:02 AM
Surrender your weapon??
Get off the X in the direction where you open up the shot to his head away from the hostage and take the shot. It will be either 11 or 1 O'clock. Closing the range will be a suprise to an untrained person and likely deadly for them. This is where training in things like this comes into play. There are schools out there that train in this.
Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
NRA Endowment Life
There are NO Silver Medals for Street Combat
Blue Thunder, I smell Victory in the Morning!
June 23rd, 2010 02:09 AM
I see two problems with charging him either directly or obliquely.
1. You have an overturned table in front of you.
2. He can pull the trigger on your wife befor you can make much of a move on him, especially dealing with the table.
June 23rd, 2010 02:42 AM
Sound like a bad one to me. I would say its time to bluff. I have no confidence in the shot., target that small, most likely moving, and with so many chemicals dumped in my system, not something I will try, personally. There are probably those who can in the world, they are fewer than those that say they can. So I would move myself and kids to cover,.. Shore there behind a metal table but I donít think that that concealment will do much good for either of us if the shooting starts. From there I would attempt to play the verbal jujitsu game, Combined with hostage negotiator, I have carrot, he gets to leave with money, and a fake stick, threatening and acting like I can just shoot him in the head,. Not saying I am any good at negotiating in this type of situation, itís like the shot, canít do it but I will bluff. Maybe I can defuse the situation and he will leave with the cash and there will be no issues, maybe the police will arrive and it will be there issue, or maybe it will go to a monotheistic religions place for punishment. Who knows, I personally like the first one.
June 23rd, 2010 03:18 AM
Exactly. With the adrenaline dump and hands shaking and tunnel vision and possible bystander distractions and realizing it's your wife shaking in terror(sure...tell me people wont be feeling much of this)...that shot is a whole different ballgame.
Originally Posted by romansten9
I brought up IDPA because these are shooters. And people used to shooting under some measure of stress. And it's not a 100% thing for them.
I'm sure there are many people who could make this shot...but also sure there are lot more that cant....even those who practice dilligently.
If nothing else, you have to take serious aim. This will be visible to an attacker with his finger already on the trigger.....
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
June 23rd, 2010 06:08 AM
Ladies and Gentleman first of all great responses from everyone.
This scenario, right or wrong, forced you to take action no sitting back and waiting to see what would happen.
It was also to make you think about your ability, could you make the shot if you had to at that distance? Many responded that they could not and that is good it shows pride is not in the way of good judgement so now practice this type of shot. Go buy a pack of index cards and next time at the range use them. Set them vertically, horizontally and diagnally so your mind does not focus on one picture.
Think about the weapon you carry. The main reasoning for most for the weapon they carry is motivated by budget. No matter what you carry practice with it to know what it and you can do. Some carry small lightweight guns that have basic sights and basic triggers and that is fine use what you have but know how to use it.
You have got to talk to your spouse or SO about situations like this this is not recomended as 1st or even 3rd date conversation.
Plan ahead with them make up some signs or signals and practice them. The idea of the hostage bringing their knees up so the BG must support dead weight great idea.
You and your spouse, if she carries, practice getting comfortable drawing and doing contact shots if possible where you shoot. Drawing from a restrained or semi restrained postion and then firing with the weapon that close to you can really rattle your cage.
Remember what you want the outcome to be. BG gone, wife safe period. Who cares if you lose money at that point. This is a time where the semester you spent on the debate team may come in handy. Greed is a powerful motivator the site of large, large to the BG, amounts of cash may be the motivation needed to get him out.
You may be familiar with your own weapons systems but learn all you can about others. Lets say the BG is armed with a Beretta 92. After shooting the employee he drops the hammer on the pistol and leaves the safety down, it would change things or if he left the hammer back. It would make a difference.
It is human nature to fear things we do not understand gain knowledge and knowing how different weapons work it may help you in the future.
Finally the title of the scenario would you surrender your weapon. There is no easy answer to this.
Every drop of hormome in our bodies says never, but even knowing the result may be myself and spouse killed anyway could you sit there and watch her be shot by the BG when their was that chance it might save her?
Personally I could not give up my weapon and my spouse knows this. If all else failed, I would use the table I was behind as a rest and take the shot or if possible close the distance and take the shot if all possible but before taking any shot I would do anything and everything possible to end this without any further shots being fired.
Again thanks for all the responses.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
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