Surrendering your weapon - Page 4

Surrendering your weapon

This is a discussion on Surrendering your weapon within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I wouldn't go to my BUG. It's a Ruger LCP, which is a fantastic gun, but doesn't have the sight radius, trigger feel, or, quite ...

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Thread: Surrendering your weapon

  1. #46
    Member Array XDshooter's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go to my BUG. It's a Ruger LCP, which is a fantastic gun, but doesn't have the sight radius, trigger feel, or, quite frankly, the accuracy of my XD. It's a great gun, but it's still just a belly gun.


  2. #47
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    Outstanding replies guys. Lets look at some of the options and facts presented so far.
    Bad guy has shown his commitment to the act by shooting an employee. He is not a junkie or drunk he seems to know what he is doing.

    Some have admitted that taking the shot is not within their skill level and it is great that members can admit that fact. Now with that said you need to train until you can. This goes back to the fact that the mere presence of a firearm does not represent security you have to train and train hard to be proficient with your weapon.

    Preplanning with your spouse/SO is imparative to a good outcome. The idea of your loved one fighting or striking the BG to cause a distraction may or may not work depending on damage caused. Wife or SO armed that is an option if she can get to her weapon and make a contact shot would certainly cause the BG to loose interest.

    It may seem corny to some but the option of dead weight, faking a heart attack or fainting make the BG hold her up if she has the determination and state of mind to do it he will not do this for long or maybe just long enough to allow you a better shot it also may allow you to close the distance to where you feel you can make the shot.

    If possible always try to leave an avenue of escape for the BG dont, if you can, get between him and the door, tell him he is free to leave if he lets her go.

    Buy your way out good option employees and whoever else gives up their cash. In theory BG sees money, greed and original motive kick in he takes money and runs after releasing hostage.

    A couple caught on about the two words cover and concealment. I am sure most know the difference but for those who dont, cover or hard cover that was mentioned is something you can get behind that will stop a bullet. Concealment is something that hides you but offers no ballistic protection. Look around next time you are out you would be surprised at what you can find.

    Laser sights in this situation would be a plus without a doubt any edge you can get. The motto of my LE sniper class was "Win if you can, but always cheat".
    I made mention of the fact that you were partially concealed again some caught on, move if you can or need to. The concealment will not stop a bullet and he knows where you are so why stay there unless it is to your advantage.

    The option of dropping one gun to give the BG a false sense of victory and drawing a BUG. Kinda good in theory but you are giving up your tactical advantage to now attempt to draw to an already presented weapon. Also keep in mind that the BUG will in theory will be smaller and less accurate than your primary so again you may be giving up the edge just as XDShooter just said.

    Lastly Treo I know you and I disagree on occasion but I wanted to say that your response is one of the most dedicated things a man can say about his spouse and I applaud you.
    Keep them coming guys.
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  3. #48
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    I wouldn't go to my BUG. It's a Ruger LCP, which is a fantastic gun, but doesn't have the sight radius, trigger feel, or, quite frankly, the accuracy of my XD. It's a great gun, but it's still just a belly gun.
    Which brings up an excellent point. Many people carry guns made to carry and not shoot. Are some people confident enough of their ability to make the shot with a small handgun with a double action trigger and very basic if any sights?

    Certainly some people can, but from what I have seen the majority of the people that I have dealt with cannot.

    This scenario is but one of many reasons that carrying a full sized handgun with a good trigger and a better sight radius make sense.

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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post

    If possible always try to leave an avenue of escape for the BG dont, if you can, get between him and the door, tell him he is free to leave if he lets her go.
    Excellent point for me to remember.

    Apologies if I sounded 'macho', but i know my situation. My wife is a nurse (for 30+ yrs). She says she knows she could never wilfully harm someone so she has not trained in any way. She's a perfect co-dependent type. Right or wrong, fair or not, I'm clear the resolution of this scenario would be totally up to me . . . unless I spotted a police sniper getting into position.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  5. #50
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    I am not French, so surrendering my weapon is a NOT!
    If I were being held, I'd say, "Take the shot and blow his brains out. If I get hit, well, that's how it goes."
    If my wife is being held, she'd say the same thing.
    One has to react quickly and violently, the more time one wastes, the worse it could be.
    Now, my wife and I are both in our sixth decade...whatever happens, happens.
    I understand the possible outcomes, but if a dirtbag has my wife, he's NOT walking out, and he will not expect how quickly I will act.
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  6. #51
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    As soon as my sights are on his head, I'm going to shoot him!

    He gets a bag of money from the store, he's not going to let your wife go! He's going to use her to back out of the store and get to his vehicle, he will probably take her with him when he leaves. He's dead where he stands.
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  7. #52
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    I know this is a little off-topic, but I know that there are a lot of guys (and maybe gals) that have a safe full of handguns and carry the one on that day that strikes their fancy. When I was younger, I did this too, so I'm not just pointing the finger. Let me say that this is exceedingly dangerous, as you won't have the same proficiency with the multitude of guns that you own than you will if you have a dedicated carry-gun and practice more with that gun than the others. There might come an instance like the one that we are talking about when the chips are down and you must call upon whatever skill-set you possess. Why take a chance by carrying your "barbecue gun" to Stake-and-Shake when you could have strapped on the Glock that you carry/practice with the most?
    Last edited by XDshooter; June 19th, 2010 at 06:19 PM. Reason: typographic error

  8. #53
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    There is no win here--just degree of loss.

    IMO, you drop the gun, you (and possibly the hostage) are dead. He is counting on you "doing the right thing" and dropping the gun...taking a hostage has signed his death warrant.

    Not to fight the scenario: but if I drew in the opening part of a robbery, I've already jumped the shark.....bad decision on my part, now I'm playing catch-up
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  9. #54
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    You surrender your weapon, he will kill you and your family anyway. Never give up your gun. I would rather take a chance at a good shot than having to think about it in my conscience about not doing anything at all when I had the chance.

  10. #55
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    You notice a subject walk in dressed in a military field jacket even though it is warm outside which raises your SA. As your wife exits the bathroom and walks by the subject he pulls out what you see is a Smith model 60 revolver and announces this is a holdup and grabs your wife.
    Your child runs screaming to you as you stand up drawing your CC the BG now knows two things you are armed and that the hostage is related to you.


    He has involved my family/someone I love and care about. Now this ends on MY terms

    He announces all he wants is money and he will leave. A male employee attempts to grab him and is shot in the upper thigh for his trouble. He tells you this "put down your gun, give me the money and I will leave without problem" if not he will shoot his hostage.

    In my mind I know this is bull****, he already shot the employee whats stopping him from killing someone?

    You are face to face at a distance of 12 yards, the hammer is down on his revolver, your kids are safely behind hard cover of a metal serving counter, you are mostly concealed by an overturned table, the suspect has his back to a solid brick wall, you have the right shoulder, arm and a 1/2 to 3/4 headshot. He has given you 15 seconds to comply.

    14, 13, 12,.......


    15 seconds is more than enough time for me to line the shot up and fire. I take the headshot. Risky yes, but better than letting my family die. As I said before, time for talking was thrown out the SECOND he grabbed a hostage. I would much rather have my wife/GF be grazed my a bullet or have a non life threatening GSW then have one in their head.


    This is why the targets with the hostage taker and hostage come in handy. The chances you might have to take that kind of shot might be slim, but thats why we carry to begin with, on the slim chance we will need it. Why not practice for a scenario? YOU WILL DEFAULT TO YOUR TRAINING the moment something goes down that involves you needing to fight or fire. If you havent trained the odds of you surviving or winning are VERY LOW, even with training the odds are already stacked against you in this situation, but you will default to your training which will definitely help to UP your odds.

    Just my answer, plain and simple as I can make it.\

    PS
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Not to fight the scenario: but if I drew in the opening part of a robbery, I've already jumped the shark.....bad decision on my part, now I'm playing catch-up
    No you didnt, you drew AFTER the armed robber grabbed your Significant other. Not jumping the shark as you said, rather a normal response IMO.

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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    Who in their right mind would draw their CC at this point in time? It's clearly not an opportune time to shoot the BG, all it does is put your family and greater danger and remove the opportunity to shoot him when an opportunity arises later.

    I would keep it hidden so he assumes I am a regular unarmed civilian, wait until he turns around and then shoot him in the back.
    I'll second what sentioch said. Drawing your CC gun at that time would have been a mistake. It just amplifies a problem that you are already on the wrong side of. If that scenario were real, I think it'd be best to not draw your gun and create a stand off with some nut that is using your wife as a shield.

  12. #57
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    not giving up my weapon. There is no trust to do what he said he was going to.
    he will shoot his shield in 15 seconds. let him know that his shield is the only thing keeping he from extra holes and that he is not leaving here with her. he can take is gun, lower it with the case in hand and leave now walking or running or he can leave in a body bag. when he lowers and backs away I may or maynot shoot him as he is still a threat.
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  13. #58
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    my response continued.......

    As I think about your described scenario, When you revealed that you were armed, I can't help but believe that the gunman (with your wife as his shield) would not have just shot you on the spot. He had already shot one person, so he was so inclined. What could you have done about it, open fire and hit your wife? In anything but the movies or "Law & Order: SVU, that is how it would have probably played out. The over turned table would have been of little use to you as cover.

  14. #59
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    In the words of Keanu Reeves, "shoot the hostage, take a good wound and the perp will not be able to hold on to them"

    Just kidding, I could never purposefully shoot my own wife (most of the time), but I would under NO circumstances ever relinquish my firearm to BG. It is the only assurance that I have that that I hold any position at all in this excahnge and am not just another sheep.
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
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  15. #60
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    So you take your headshot and make it. Is that hit always, mostly or just sometimes... devastating enough to keep him from taking her out too?
    It would only take a good twitch or a hand clench...and she's dead.
    And then, you've sentenced yourself to a life of 'what ifs.'
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