Surrendering your weapon - Page 8

Surrendering your weapon

This is a discussion on Surrendering your weapon within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You are face to face at a distance of 12 yards, It's twelve yards, not 25'. If it was 25' we wouldn't be having this ...

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Thread: Surrendering your weapon

  1. #106
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    You are face to face at a distance of 12 yards,
    It's twelve yards, not 25'. If it was 25' we wouldn't be having this discussion, as I would've already taken the shot.

    36' is far enough away that the fundamentals of marksmanship come into play when so much is at stake. I know that I can keep my bullets on a torso sized target at that distance, and even further often firing with my support hand. I do not have confidence in my ability to make the deep brain shot at that distance with the handguns I currently carry.

    As I stated before, if you hurt my wife in this scenario any and all social mores and restraints will be thrown out the window, up to and including murder. I would go so far as to say that after you have been stopped I may be so inclined as to decapitate or disembowel the aggressor.

    That is not Hollywood fantasy talking. That is just the reality of my world. If that disturbs anyone, I can't help that and further, I don't much care.

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; June 21st, 2010 at 12:40 AM. Reason: typo


  2. #107
    Member Array Mikhail's Avatar
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    Just from a quick read he will kill you for the most part. You pull your gun he looks at it and now that $200 hist is a $500 to $1,000 score. I would try to get a better angle and go from there. I'm sorry if this is off topic but this scenario demands a third choice.
    Last edited by Mikhail; June 21st, 2010 at 12:56 AM. Reason: My .02 cents.

  3. #108
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDshooter View Post
    Well, let's put this in context. In the average sit-down eatery, your looking at around 50' from wall to wall. Add furniture and considering the floor plan, your looking at about 15'-20' between you and the turd holding your SO hostage. All things considered, with my level of practice/proficiency, the weapon that I am carrying is the weapon that I practice with, and the distances involved, I believe that I could make that shot. I'm not trying to toot my own horn or paint a picture of me being Bruce Willis, but I believe that I could place one bullet pretty much where I want on the BG. Since his eyes are on me, I assume that most or all of his face is exposed. I know that shooting at the range is different that shooting people, but at 25 feet, I can shoot one ragged hole in the target with my XD9. I am confident that I can make that shot. Just my opinion.
    Er what do you think his trigger finger is doing while you're aiming? Or even after your shot hits him?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  4. #109
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Er what do you think his trigger finger is doing while you're aiming? Or even after your shot hits him?
    How does he know you are aiming?

    Hopefully, absolutely nothing.

  5. #110
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass63 View Post
    So you take your headshot and make it. Is that hit always, mostly or just sometimes... devastating enough to keep him from taking her out too?
    It would only take a good twitch or a hand clench...and she's dead.
    And then, you've sentenced yourself to a life of 'what ifs.'
    I'm not sure it matters.

    From what I read from multiple posters here & in multiple threads, the results will fall where they may, but it's going to go down "on their terms."

    The disregard for a shot wife, terrorized kids, innocent bystanders in the way/shot by now enraged bg, or even the possibility of talking the bg down or waiting for cops seems unimportant.

    The what if's dont matter, as long as it's done on their terms.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  6. #111
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    How does he know you are aiming?

    Hopefully, absolutely nothing.

    In the scenario, cant he see you and the gun?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  7. #112
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    In the scenario, cant he see you and the gun?
    That in itself does not indicate that you are aiming.

  8. #113
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    45tec you have drawn to a threat you have seen but your wife happen to walk out at the wrong time. The purpose of saying you have drawn is to force you into a decision and not just the standard wait til his back is turned and shoot him type response.
    It also forces you to think of your own ability. As one person posted you need to be able to hit a 3x5 index card at this distance. If you cant you need to train until you can.
    BikerRN gets the prize for this page. The reason I chose that distance is that it puts a lot of shooters out of there comfort zone. You can blast a target all day at 3 and 7 yards with great accuracy even with less than perfect technique but beyond that you have to have the fundementals down to hit a small target.
    Remember the revolver is not cocked so there is an excellent chance that if he is shot he will not be able to pull the trigger and as HotGuns said 12 yards with a rest if you are up to it should be able to put all your shots in the kill zone.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #114
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Since my wife is involved that means I'm not working at the moment.

    My first instinct is to contain the situation but in reality, in this case I want him to flee, and no I won't be chasing after him. I need to make him acutely aware that his only chace to live is to not harm his hostage. If he fails in that I will not be contained by laws, morals or any other restraint.

    I will tell the cashier to give him a bag full of money. I'm not going to risk a rescue shot when this may be avoided by just giving him the money. Maybe you all are John Rambo, but I know I'm not. The risk is too great in this case when there are other avenues available that will allow one to reach the desired destination.

    The desired destination is badguy gone and spouse unharmed.

    Biker
    9MMare,

    See the bold portions for the Cliff Notes version.

    The only person that matters, in this scenario is my wife. I don't much care about anyone else at this point.

    Biker

  10. #115
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    That in itself does not indicate that you are aiming.

    agreed, but if it was me, I'd assume that gun was trained on me. Is that unrealistic for most people?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #116
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I'm not sure it matters.

    From what I read from multiple posters here & in multiple threads, the results will fall where they may, but it's going to go down "on their terms."

    The disregard for a shot wife, terrorized kids, innocent bystanders in the way/shot by now enraged bg, or even the possibility of talking the bg down or waiting for cops seems unimportant.

    The what if's dont matter, as long as it's done on their terms.
    Funny, for the most part, I took away an entirely different interpretation. I saw a number of people with grave concern for their wife taking the action that they felt gave her the best chance for survival. There is no specific mention of bystanders, but I believe that the OP made every effort to indicate a clear shot and if asked would indicate that there are no bystanders in jeopardy. He indicated a solid backstop, kids behind cover, etc. As previously stated by a number of posters, they do not wish to leave the fate of their spouse in the hands of an armed robber who has already shot someone.

  12. #117
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    agreed, but if it was me, I'd assume that gun was trained on me. Is that unrealistic for most people?
    Trained vs aimed, I do not agree, but I think we are arguing semantics, so I will just drop it.

  13. #118
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Funny, for the most part, I took away an entirely different interpretation. I saw a number of people with grave concern for their wife taking the action that they felt gave her the best chance for survival. There is no specific mention of bystanders, but I believe that the OP made every effort to indicate a clear shot and if asked would indicate that there are no bystanders in jeopardy. He indicated a solid backstop, kids behind cover, etc. As previously stated by a number of posters, they do not wish to leave the fate of their spouse in the hands of an armed robber who has already shot someone.
    Once you shoot, if you dont succeed....bg is shooting...lord knows where and at whom.

    IMO, all I did was propose other things to consider before "he has my wife and I'm shooting". I find it hard to believe so many people would be THAT accurate at 12 *yards*...but I cant argue if someone says they can take the head shot.

    I think attempting to appeal to him during Mexican standoff is reasonable...if you appear reasonable and get him to believe you. That absolute confidence in telling him he's dead if he pulls the trigger would be imperative, so that he believes....and a good strategy.

    I think making sure he knows cops are on the way is beneficial.

    I think that the couples/families that have worked this out and practiced are the ones that have the best chance of succeeding here. Congrats to all those couples.

    If you miss or dont STOP him and his finger....you will be living with your decision "on your terms"...so you had better be a darn good shot....if not, at least consider all the possible angles. Not all have been presented here, I'm sure. But now is the time to think about it, not when you're confronted with the situation.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #119
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    I find some of these responses interesting, some disturbing... Head shots at 25' with your wife being held hostage at gunpoint? Quit watchin' movies.... you mall ninjas, that's a bad choice. Grow up!
    I find your response quite interesting since you do not know the background of those posting. You are making a lot of assumptions there.

    I associate with people everyday that can make the shot every time and I can assure you that they are not mall ninjas. Just because it may be beyond your capability does not mean that no one else can not do it.

    Its a simple thing really. If you feel confident about the shot, you take it. If you dont think that you can, then you dont try it and let the chips fall where they may...or you can curl up in the fetal position while trying to hold your water and hope that someone else will bail you out.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  15. #120
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    "If you miss or dont STOP him and his finger....you will be living with your decision on your terms...so you had better be a darn good shot....if not, at least consider all the possible angles. Not all have been presented here, I'm sure. But now is the time to think about it, not when you're confronted with the situation."

    This we are in agreement on.

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