Surrendering your weapon

This is a discussion on Surrendering your weapon within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; terrorized kids I think they are already terrorized by the BG at this point...

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Thread: Surrendering your weapon

  1. #121
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    terrorized kids
    I think they are already terrorized by the BG at this point
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  3. #122
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    A little personal experience affirmation of the effectiveness of this if the MO is penetrated. Suspect is sitting in a vehicle, doors and windows closed, in drivers seat with victim next to him. Susp's right arm is around the neck of victim and his left hand holds a cocked pistol to her left temple. I and sniper are 12-15yds from drivers side window. I am running coms for sniper as no on body or vox then. After hours of negotiating word comes to take the shot. Victim leans her head forward 1-2", leaving about a 2" window for the shot. Sniper takes the shot. Susp's head immediately slumps backward onto back of seat, no firing of the weapon, no nothing, just collapse. Uninjured victim is safely extracted from vehicle.
    I think I remember this story Guantes. (I cheered "outloud"!) EXCELLENT police work!

  4. #123
    Member Array SteveinNEPA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    The disregard for a shot wife, terrorized kids, innocent bystanders in the way/shot by now enraged bg, or even the possibility of talking the bg down or waiting for cops seems unimportant.
    The what if's dont matter, as long as it's done on their terms.
    The scumbag has a gun to significant others HEAD after said scumbag has already shot an innocent. The kids have already pissed their pants from the beginning of the situation so they have BEEN terrorized from the start (add to that the fact that now their mother has a GUN To her HEAD). By the time the cops get there, it might be too late. Life is one big what IF to be honest. This scenario is no different. WHAT IF the police roll up and he decides hes not leaving alive and just starts killing people... The fact most of us say it ends on OUR TERMS is because this scenario has gone from bad to worse to worst case in a matter of seconds. It only goes down hill from there.

    Just my opinion.
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  5. #124
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I think I remember this story Guantes. (I cheered "outloud"!) EXCELLENT police work!
    Thank You, Sir.
    I was very proud of this one. I had a trainee at the time. I decided to sit on a freeway on ramp, while he wrote reports, watching for the vehicle in the kidnapping broadcast. After about ten minutes I yelled at my trainee,"There he goes!". We initiated the pursuit that eventually ended the situation.

  6. #125
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    "I'll be surrendering my slugs in 7 seconds!"
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  7. #126
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    A similiar event happened in Virginia last month...

    Handyman dies protecting Centreville family he worked for from armed home invaders

    So on Monday morning, when two armed men broke into the family's four-car garage, Rosales stood between them and the Brars. "Get away from my brother and my mom," he said.

    Then, the stocky Rosales decided to fight back. He jumped one of the invaders and wrested his gun away, sources familiar with the case said Tuesday. But the other man turned his gun on the family's mother. He threatened to kill the matriarch if Rosales didn't give the gun back. Rosales did, the sources said.

    And then the gunmen shot and killed Rosales.


    Don't give up your weapon!

  8. #127
    Member Array brabham78's Avatar
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    It makes me somewhat uneasy to think that there are actually some here who believe the answer is to take a shot under the following conditions:

    I (husband) am 12 yards (36 feet) away from the bad guy, with about 1/2 of the BG's head showing. That means the other half of his head is shielded by MY wife's head. Add in to this the fact that I am not protected by any real cover, so I'm a sitting duck. But that aside, even assuming BG would hold completely still to give me a sporting chance at hitting him, as well as promising not to shoot at me while I'm doing it --- that is still a shot that I would not take in a million years. From 36 feet, I'd be taking an adrenaline charged shot at a target that's about 3" to 4" wide, and if I'm off by just a fraction of an inch (which is almost a certainly), my wife is missing part of her head, all because (apparently) I had watched to many cop shows and made the assumption that people really can shoot like Harry Callahan.

    Like another member said of himself, I too associate with deadly accurate shooters, and I'm pretty sure that I can speak for them when I say that to a man, not a single one of them would choose to take what amounts to a fantasy shot at such a small (and unpredictable) target, with so much being on the line if they don't succeed (a woman's life).

    Another member posted that the husband needs to find real cover, and not some over turned table. I agree with who ever said that, because honestly, if the scenario were really to take shape in the way it was described in the original post, then the husband would be in big trouble within seconds of revealing his CC gun. Only on TV and the movies do two armed people stand there pointing guns at one another, yet no one fires, especially when one is as such an obvious disadvantage. The husband is on the wrong end if this, he's presenting a serious problem for the bad guy, he is pretty much exposed, and the bad guy knows it and is going to fire on the husband, right through the over turned table. Its a man-sized tartet, an easy shot that anyone would take, including the bad guy who knows it will be problem solved.

    Husband needs to take cover, keep talking, do not give up his gun, and try to string it out until the police arrive, and while he's talking, he needs to try to convince the bad guy that the police are on the way, his avenue of escape will soon be closing if he doesn't leave quickly..... but if he leaves now, no further injury needs to happen to anyone. But for god sakes, don't take a fantasy shot that will certainly end badly for the wife and possibly others. It has nothing to do with being a coward and wanting to curl up in a fetal position, its just a matter of common sense. Firing at will is not always the answer. That is why the professionals (the police) have something knows as a "hostage negotiator", and more often than not, it works quite well.

  9. #128
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    To be honest, with the training that I have had, I think Im taking the CPU shot. Its 36 feet. I will ask my wife for forgiveness when its over.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  10. #129
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    Hmm....a "fantasy shot". Interesting.

    I guess many have never seen the full sized targets that feature a badguy being shielded by a hostage with just half of his head and one eye peeking from behind.

    It makes me somewhat uneasy to think that there are actually some here who believe the answer is to take a shot under the following conditions:
    It makes me somewhat uneasy to think that they are those that think this is an impossible shot, or even a fantasy shot...when really it's not even a remarkable shot at all for someone that shoots alot.

    I learned quite a long time ago not to judge others by my own limitations. I have seen many things over the years that even though I couldn't do it, were in fact do-able by someone else.

    There is a time for talk and a time for action.
    Someone holding a gun to the head of my loved one has spoke enough and we are done talking.
    It's time for action.
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  11. #130
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Hmm....a "fantasy shot". Interesting.

    I guess many have never seen the full sized targets that feature a badguy being shielded by a hostage with just half of his head and one eye peeking from behind.



    It makes me somewhat uneasy to think that they are those that think this is an impossible shot, or even a fantasy shot...when really it's not even a remarkable shot at all for someone that shoots alot.

    I learned quite a long time ago not to judge others by my own limitations. I have seen many things over the years that even though I couldn't do it, were in fact do-able by someone else.

    There is a time for talk and a time for action.
    Someone holding a gun to the head of my loved one has spoke enough and we are done talking.
    It's time for action.
    Well, I'm in the IDPA club and I see and shoot those targets. And I'm not consistent at all, however I've been shooting less than a yr. And by no means do I judge people who have been shooting longer by my performance.

    However I dont see the guys in the club taking those shots at 36 feet very consistently either. Any of them. Definitely not 100% of the time. And a few compete nationally.

    (Circumstances might be different but I'd equate the movement/time restrictions of competition with the stresses of the current scenario. Not completely, but similar)

    I guess it depends on the expertise of those you are familiar with. You must keep some very impressive company. Kudos.
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  12. #131
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    Please note I am not knocking anyones shooting abilities or questioning any comment or post with the following statement.

    The ability to hit an index card size target is no different than hitting the X ring on a standard B-27 target which was/is used for years as a standard for law enforcement qualifications. At 12 yards the shot is not difficult if you have the fundementals of shooting down and practice doing it.
    I have used index cards for targets for years and can consistently hit them out to 25 yards with a quality handgun with decent sights. Adding time, stress and distance will affect anyones ability and I am not saying I can do it in 1.3 seconds from the holster at any given distance but with practice hitting this size target can be used as a standard to test your abilities.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #132
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    And I'm not consistent at all, however I've been shooting less than a yr. And by no means do I judge people who have been shooting longer by my performance.
    Just for perspective, I've been shooting over fifty years and I still practice, what some people call "a lot".

  14. #133
    Member Array docdozer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    In this scenario how much life insurance does my wife have?
    I don't care if he shot the clerk in the leg. He is still holding a hostage and threatening to kill her. Once the gun is out, the only hesitation should be to line up the tritium dots. Good reason to carry a 1911 with a quality trigger by the way. As you draw your gun he has to process the situation, just like you. That gives you an element of surprise. Getting into a (south of the border ) standoff loses the element of surprise and action and decreases your chances. If the kids are grabbing at you as you draw though, you've still got a problem.
    There's something happening here
    What it is ain't exactly clear
    There's a man with a gun over there
    Telling me I got to beware

  15. #134
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    It makes me somewhat uneasy to think that they are those that think this is an impossible shot, or even a fantasy shot...when really it's not even a remarkable shot at all for someone that shoots alot.
    No, if you shoot well and practice regularly, you can hit the X at 36 feet. That's not a "difficult" shot. On the other hand, can you put all 6 rounds from a .357 snubbie into that X such that they only leave one bullet-sized hole? Not even one flier? Not one of them 2 inches to the left?

    This isn't a question for the fellow who will say, "yes, I make that exact shot all day, every day and don't assume I have your limitations," rather it's the test for the person who wants to make that shot.

    Add in the hinky hostage-taker who's moving around, using the wife as a shield, and I think the only realistic option here is to keep the standoff going and hope she can drop to give you a line of fire. Surrendering the weapon is not a good idea.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  16. #135
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    Say, "Honey, I bet you a weekend session at Front Sight that I can make this shot."

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