Surrendering your weapon

This is a discussion on Surrendering your weapon within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I searched this two or three different ways and did not find anything if it is a recent repeat please delete. It is easy to ...

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Thread: Surrendering your weapon

  1. #1
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    Surrendering your weapon

    I searched this two or three different ways and did not find anything if it is a recent repeat please delete.

    It is easy to sit here and type in a response to a post with almost a 100% this is what I would do response so lets see how this one goes.
    Please answer honestly based on your skill level and how well you think you would react under stress.

    You are sitting in a fast food restaurant with your family. Your wife takes one of the kids to the bathroom and leaves you with the other at the table.

    You notice a subject walk in dressed in a military field jacket even though it is warm outside which raises your SA. As your wife exits the bathroom and walks by the subject he pulls out what you see is a Smith model 60 revolver and announces this is a holdup and grabs your wife.
    Your child runs screaming to you as you stand up drawing your CC the BG now knows two things you are armed and that the hostage is related to you.

    He announces all he wants is money and he will leave. A male employee attempts to grab him and is shot in the upper thigh for his trouble. He tells you this "put down your gun, give me the money and I will leave without problem" if not he will shoot his hostage.

    You are face to face at a distance of 12 yards, the hammer is down on his revolver, your kids are safely behind hard cover of a metal serving counter, you are mostly concealed by an overturned table, the suspect has his back to a solid brick wall, you have the right shoulder, arm and a 1/2 to 3/4 headshot. He has given you 15 seconds to comply.

    14, 13, 12,........

    Please do not respond with I dont eat fast food, I am not married, I have no kids and so on. Please feel free to insert the relative or significant other of your choice into the scenario. Please exclude mother in laws.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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  3. #2
    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    He has now involved me and mine. The only way he's leaving is in a body bag.

    Wait for him to get distracted and give him one in his CPU.

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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    If he grabs my wife he may well have crushed testicles. Never surrender your weapon. In this situation he does not know you even have one. React as the event unfolds.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

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    Old school yep he knows you are armed
    Your child runs screaming to you as you stand up drawing your CC the BG now knows two things you are armed and that the hostage is related to you.

    You have the 15 seconds to see how the event unfolds. And I do agree on the grabbing wife crushed testicle part also but lets assume she doesnt for whatever reason.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    It may be hard to hear, but they only have two options.

    1. You tell the guy he can put his gun down and release your SO and he gets to run as fast as he %#^@!&* can out of the place.

    2. You tell him that if he shoots and kills your SO, he's getting n amount of rounds to the chest and head, through or around your deceased SO, and is leaving in a %#^@!&* body bag.

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    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Tough scenario. The hostage deal is a major complication. I'm not a bad shot, but not good enough to take that one.

    Hate to give up the weapon, though. So maybe keep it pointed at BG's face and work on the Mexican standoff. The BG had no expectation, on entering the store, of making off with more than a hundred bucks or so, so hard to see him going trigger happy.

    If the wife is the fighting type, you could make eye contact and signal that she should go for the fast drop to the floor. Get ready - you'll have about .5 secs and a clear target.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    He has already shot someone so we know he is serious about his intentions. Good responses keep them coming.

    I'm not a bad shot, but not good enough to take that one.

    Shockwave thanks for the honest response.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Try to stay within the confines of the scenario as presented or your comments will not count and will be deleted as being Off Topic to the thread.

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    The BG has already shown he's not afraid to shoot. NO WAY I am giving up my weapon!

    BG has two choices:

    1. Drop his weapon, let my wife go and leave. (cops can pick him up later)
    2. shoot my wife and leave in a body-bag.

    #1 needs to be in that order, pushing my wife away while still holding his weapon means I take him out as he is still a threat.

    Tracy
    Democracy:
    Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
    Freedom:
    A well armed lamb contesting the vote.

  11. #10
    AzB
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    This is why you should carry a bug. You put main weapon down, he drops his guard and *bang bang bang bang*, end of problem.
    Az

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

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    My wife surprises me constantly with her SA. If the BG did get the drop on her a quick look and she would be dropping to the floor or making whatever move she can so I could get the shot. I may or may not have time to give him options it really depends on the wife. I would prefer she give him a good nut bashing so he drops his weapon and then I can pummel him as he has made this way more personal than just a robbery, but that is my Iraq post gym induced testosterone talking.
    Please take my posts with a grain of salt. I am frequently sleep deprived and always just on this side of "Krazy".

    When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. Edmund Burke

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    Bang. Splat.

    Cleanup on Aisle 4.

    No way I am giving up my weapon and then both of us being executed. Her best chance is his quick, violent death.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Your child runs screaming to you as you stand up drawing your CC the BG now knows two things you are armed and that the hostage is related to you.
    Who in their right mind would draw their CC at this point in time? It's clearly not an opportune time to shoot the BG, all it does is put your family and greater danger and remove the opportunity to shoot him when an opportunity arises later.

    I would keep it hidden so he assumes I am a regular unarmed civilian, wait until he turns around and then shoot him in the back.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

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    Short answer: I'm doing everything I can do immediately take down the perp. I've trained at the distance with my S.O. and have a fair comfort level with being able to work as a team in such a situation. Depends heavily on the specifics in the situation.

    Having trained reasonably frequently with my S.O. on what each of us could do in tandem during such a situation, I think the right thing for us to do is: I begin firing at the criminal 10-12yds away, while she drop to the ground and begin to draw/fire as she's able.

    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    Who in their right mind would draw their CC at this point in time?
    The person in his "right mind" is the one who in the scenario drew his gun as he saw the situation. He's already got it; presumably, it's trained on the perp and not simply dangling in the hand or placed back in the holster. So, it's not as though firing is going to take much time beyond completing the aim and firing. If we were speaking of being faced with a BG-with-gun while having a holstered gun, that would be something else. But that's not this scenario, as stated.

    Obviously, I think, if caught unawares and not having already drawn my firearm (else, how would the BG know I'm armed?), keeping low and awaiting the proper moment would be the preferable choice. Even with the hostage. In a large gang/group, it might be difficult to find such a time, but a couple of perps might well leave much ignored and unseen, allowing opportunities to quickly respond and turn the tables.

    There is no way I'm surrendering my firearm, as it's entirely likely to be the only way we're surviving the situation. Besides which, there are the kids to think of (in the scenario). Surrendering the firearm leaves their lives open to question. The training has been centered on never doing that, when it would leave the kids dangling in the wind.

    That isn't bravado, chest-slapping, prayerful wishing. It's simply a result of having trained sufficiently at 5-15yds on accuracy in stressful situations that I am reasonably comfortable with taking such a shot. Depends highly on the specifics in the situation, of course, but so long as my S.O. is not completely covered up by the perp then I'm fairly certain I have the ability to take him down under these circumstances.

    Of course, it would take an awfully stupid perp to make himself such a large target while someone has a drawn firearm at ~10yds trained on his COM. So long as he's blowing his use of cover (the hostage, a counter, whatever), then I think our training is going to result in his being eliminated. Might well result in one or both of us getting harmed as well, but there are no guarantees in any of this. I'd rather have a choice, and some measure of control over the sequence of events, as opposed to becoming disarmed and unable to have much chance at stopping whatever is about to happen.

    YMMV.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    Member Array joecs1's Avatar
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    M&p 9c with ct. I dont think he will like that red light on his right eye ball! lights out!!!!!!!!!
    S&W M&P 9C
    RUGER LCP
    S&W 5906
    COLT DET. SPEC.
    S&W 686-6"
    "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck", Author un-known

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