unthinkable horrible scenario-based on recent news

This is a discussion on unthinkable horrible scenario-based on recent news within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by crankinNM 95% are saying that........... Actually the intent is not to cause you harm. The intent is to get your "stuff" by ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array mauser1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankinNM View Post
    95% are saying that...........

    Actually the intent is not to cause you harm. The intent is to get your "stuff" by scaring you into compliance. Lots of room there to take advantage of a poorly thought out scheme withot being railroaded into the common protocol of a quick and deadly response.
    Who knows what the intent is, how many armed robberies have the victims comply, and they are still killed. I do not care who points a gun at me, I will take out the offender if possible. A gun does not know how old the person is pulling the trigger, nor does it care; neither should you.
    A hand gun is like a fire extinguisher , I wish to use neither, but have both on hand in case of need ; both are personal protection devices that serve the same purpose . ie safety of you and your family.

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Video games and movies make kids do bad things... [ Edited to keep from being pimp slapped by the mods ] BS!!!!

    Kids have been doing really bad violent things to other people since before there were video games and a severe lack of movies to watch.
    As one person posted - Parenting! Stop blaming the world for the failings of the breeder.

    In the given scenario, I am not closing the gap. I'll bank on the distance giving me better odds on survival if the threat decides to pull the trigger. Nor am I going to comply. I am going to do whatever is necessary to stop the threat. I'm equal opportunity - I will not discriminate against any person threatening my life with a weapon. A threat to my life is a threat. I would not want to get sued by the family of a MS13 gang banger that tried to kill me and got shot if I did not treat the 12 y/o the same.
    Right, there was no nobody else to blame when Cane killed Abel.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
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  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankinNM View Post
    95% are saying that...........

    Actually the intent is not to cause you harm. The intent is to get your "stuff" by scaring you into compliance. Lots of room there to take advantage of a poorly thought out scheme withot being railroaded into the common protocol of a quick and deadly response.
    In my opinion, anyone who points a weapon at me intends to harm me if I do not comply with their demands. Age is irrelevant.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Well, you can't outdraw a drawn gun pointed at you.

    The above is not always true.

    I believe we have a member here who has drawn against a shotgun pointed at him and would be considered the "winner" of that situation. He is certainly the survivor, as he is posting here.

    If he wishes to reveal himself he will do so. Out of respect for this person, and his privacy I will not reveal who this person is.

    Biker
    Thanks Biker, I appreciate your privacy consideration.

    It can be done given the right circumstances and participants. You must be good, you must be fast and you must be lucky. Having a plan helps. There is great incentive, believing you are about to die.

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    This scenario is one that I have contemplated, recently.


    Honestly, I don't know how I would react. That's why discussing it here, is a good thing.

    There's a disconnect in my mind, whether or not I'm morally justified in killing a kid, even if it is self defense.

    If I respond with deadly force, I'll be instantly labeled a baby killer. I have to admit that I'm worried if a reasonable juror would see it from my perspective.

    If I don't respond, I run the very real risk of me or my spouse being killed. If we subscribe to the theory that the kid has a disorder of some kind, due to over exposure of video games, then the threat has just become more violent. Because the kid knows no consequences. Therefore the probability of him killing is increased, there's a good chance he'll shoot to kill, even if his demands are met.


    Another dimension to this scenario, is the trend of gangs of young kids ambushing and beating people nigh unto death, to rob them. What if you're ambushed by more than one, all packing guns? Or clubs, or bats and bottles?

    Can we articulate our defense and prove AOJ?
    ^^^^^^^^^BULLCRAP^^^^^^^^^^

    (in bold)

    If same said youth was heading straight for you in a speeding car, what would be the difference???
    He's more than likely getting shot, in my book.


    Martin Luther King, Jr.:
    Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?' But, conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Baby rattlesnakes concern me just as much as adult ones.
    Eliminate the threat.
    Baby rattlesnakes should concern us more, they yet don't know how to control their release of venom, thus making their bites more lethal actually according to my snake expert (not more dangerous, had to add that), I would say this analogy would apply to our young folks the same way, their brains have not been exposed to life long enough to be able to make decisions an adult would most of the time.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    While it may seem harsh to shoot at a 12 year old... who we would like to believe (in some alternate reality) could have been a good kid... a 14 year old suspect, in the custody of a local cop, for theft, hit and/or knocked the officer down, causing traumatic brain injury to the officer.

    The officer may never be on patrol again... and is not the man his wife and child knew him to be before the incident...

    I'm sorry, I still have to shoot, if I have determined the gun the kid has is real...

  9. #53
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    A good friend of mine took his family out to McDonalds one night. He discovered he didn't have enough money, so he left his family there and went down the street to the ATM.

    As he was doing his transaction, a young boy appeared and shot my friend. My friend died.

    The boy didn't even take the money hanging out of the ATM. It was presumed to be a gang initiation. The camera caught it all, and the boy was caught.

    These days, there seems to be no value placed on human life.

  10. #54
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardcoreSlot View Post
    We all say that the use of deadly force is a LAST resort.
    I understand he has a gun. 12 or 21 he could shoot and kill. totally understood.
    But no one here would take a second and see if you could take him out fist?
    hand him your wallet, and when he goes for it knock him the #*^$ out. This is questionable when its a grown person, but a 12 yo? You could probably be able to read him well enough to tell if he is srs business or if he is scared and unsure.

    just a thought.

    please tell me if i am wrong...
    You may not be wrong. Are you willing to bet your life and the life of your wife or child on it? Personally, I am not.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    Regardless of whether or not the kid has the ability to think through the long-term consequences of his actions, I have that ability, and the long-term consequences of me not shooting him are quite possibly me being dead, and therefore the sudden cessation of my concern for any long-term consequences at all.

    Shoot.
    Hakkaa päälle!

  12. #56
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    If he's close enough for me to grab without having to walk/run to him, I'm pushing the gun the away and taking him down with my hands.

    If he's not close enough and I'm certain he's got a real gun, I will probably draw and fire my weapon. How I will do so is completely dependent on the situation.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardcoreSlot View Post
    We all say that the use of deadly force is a LAST resort.
    I understand he has a gun. 12 or 21 he could shoot and kill. totally understood.
    But no one here would take a second and see if you could take him out fist?
    hand him your wallet, and when he goes for it knock him the #*^$ out. This is questionable when its a grown person, but a 12 yo? You could probably be able to read him well enough to tell if he is srs business or if he is scared and unsure.

    just a thought.

    please tell me if i am wrong...
    Quote Originally Posted by Striker543 View Post
    If he's close enough for me to grab without having to walk/run to him, I'm pushing the gun the away and taking him down with my hands.
    If he's not close enough and I'm certain he's got a real gun, I will probably draw and fire my weapon. How I will do so is completely dependent on the situation.
    I'm quite surprised how many here have answered similarly to the first bolded part. Do you really think you're that fast? I have an above average amount of training in multiple areas, I sure as heck am not going to try to disarm or punch this kid. My best bet is to shoot.
    Also, in my chosen profession, I've seen plenty fake guns that I wouldn't know were fake until a closer examination than looking down the barrel from 10 feet. If you're waiting to be sure the gun is real, you're even farther behind the curve.
    All I can say to those who choose either of these two routes is....GOOD LUCK!!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  14. #58
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    "Unless I know for certain that the gun is a toy...." is what I said previously... That's different from "I'm certain he's got a real gun" (but I did say something like that in my second post.)

    Let me put it this way for clarity:
    IF I AM NOT POSITIVE THE GUN IS A TOY, I will draw, and if need be, fire my weapon.

  15. #59
    Member Array TheoryRealm's Avatar
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    Blind, Crippled, Crazy....8, 18, or 80.

    The last thing I want to hear as I'm dying is....."Oh sorry Mr., I thought this was like the PS3 game "Grand Theft Auto". Ooooops!"


    DEFENSIVECARRY.COM........hello!

    If you cannot kill someone who's about to KILL YOU, no matter the age, the sex, or the build, then put your DEADLY weapon in the safe and stay in your room, locked safely away in your little safety bubbles. The world is a dangerous place, and even KIDS have strapped bombs to themselves, and killed others.

    Wake.......UP
    Stop acting like we're fightin' for "freedom". We are ALREADY....free.

  16. #60
    Member Array Striker543's Avatar
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    Point taken. I do believe however that if he is close enough for me to reach him without having to move my legs, I can grab his arm in at least half the time it would take me to draw and shoot. The difference is, I can probably draw significantly more discreetly, at least to begin with.

    My issue is the age. 13 is awfully young to make a mistake that you can't recover from. I think it's safe to say we all did some fairly stupid stuff at young ages. Of course, nothing so wreckless and stupid as to point a gun at somebody, but stupid nonetheless.

    Also, I'm considering I encounter this situation by myself. If I were to have a loved one with me, I would have a much colder approach.

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