unthinkable horrible scenario-based on recent news - Page 5

unthinkable horrible scenario-based on recent news

This is a discussion on unthinkable horrible scenario-based on recent news within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Striker543 Point taken. I do believe however that if he is close enough for me to reach him without having to move ...

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Thread: unthinkable horrible scenario-based on recent news

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker543 View Post
    Point taken. I do believe however that if he is close enough for me to reach him without having to move my legs, I can grab his arm in at least half the time it would take me to draw and shoot. The difference is, I can probably draw significantly more discreetly, at least to begin with.

    My issue is the age. 13 is awfully young to make a mistake that you can't recover from. I think it's safe to say we all did some fairly stupid stuff at young ages. Of course, nothing so wreckless and stupid as to point a gun at somebody, but stupid nonetheless.

    Also, I'm considering I encounter this situation by myself. If I were to have a loved one with me, I would have a much colder approach.
    So....it's OK for your family to lose their husband/father if they're not around to see it, but not if they are present?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  2. #62
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    There's a disconnect in my mind, whether or not I'm morally justified in killing a kid, even if it is self defense.

    If I respond with deadly force, I'll be instantly labeled a baby killer. I have to admit that I'm worried if a reasonable juror would see it from my perspective.

    ?
    when your lawyer presents to the juror that they would be seeing a 12 year old on criminal charges of murder if he indeed did shoot you with the gun i'm pretty sure they would undertsand your reaction...

    its a gun...if its pointed at you you have every right to return the favor with a squeeze...sorry...kid or no kid...i am employing deadly force to stop the threat...i'll deal with the consequences later...and be glad i am able to...

  3. #63
    Member Array Striker543's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    So....it's OK for your family to lose their husband/father if they're not around to see it, but not if they are present?
    I should also stipulate that I'm a younger male with no wife and kids yet. When I one day have a family, I have no doubt I will have a much more conservative approach to a situation like this.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankinNM View Post
    Actually the intent is not to cause you harm. The intent is to get your "stuff" by scaring you into compliance. Lots of room there to take advantage of a poorly thought out scheme withot being railroaded into the common protocol of a quick and deadly response.
    My state doesn't allow the concealed carry of a crystal ball. Therefore, if he has a gun aimed at me, that will determine my response, especially if I have loved ones there with me.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

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  5. #65
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Intent can change in a heartbeat.

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Actions speak louder than words. Which really reveals his intent? The fact that he demanded your property, or the fact that he's got a gun on you?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  7. #67
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    My issue is the age. 13 is awfully young to make a mistake that you can't recover from. I think it's safe to say we all did some fairly stupid stuff at young ages. Of course, nothing so wreckless and stupid as to point a gun at somebody, but stupid nonetheless.
    It's not a mistake. He did it on purpose, with full knowledge of his actions. How is that a mistake? If he kills you or someone you love, is that acceptable because it was a "mistake?" If he's old enough to point the gun, he's old enough to take the consequences of his actions.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  8. #68
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    I have prepared myself to the possibility of being in a violent encounter with a person less than 20. Less than 18? Less than 16? Check your news, it happens a lot.

    I judge people by their actions and will respond accordingly. Young or old
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  9. #69
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    If a 12 year old pulls the trigger are you any less shot than if a 22 year old pulled it?

    This may not be a popular or politically correct line of thinking, but the fact is that ANYone who can cause you harm is a threat ...no matter the age.ANYone who is armed is a LETHAL threat.

    If they are armed and committing a felony is it ANY different if they are 14 or 44? You are in JUST AS MUCH danger and MAYBE more danger. If you want to spend that time trying to figure out how society has let them down and caused this poor child to turn down this path, then have at it. But if he pulls the trigger your family and friends will not care whether he was 16 or 36.

    You are not "hurting a "child " you are stopping a LETHAL threat to your life. It is no differnet if they were 13, 23, 33 , 43 or if they were a mountain lion or a bear. They are ALL a lethal threat and to look at them differently is just naive.
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  10. #70
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    I think that for a me (and possibly for some others who live in more rural, quiet areas) the crux of this issue is getting our mind around the fact that such young kids can be such a viable, deadly threat.

    It kind of calls for a radical (at least radical to some of us) re-evaluation of our culture and life that we have to include young kids into our situational awareness and threat matrix........
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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  11. #71
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    I would just give him my "dummy" wallet. I keep my emergency cash and my important cards (ID, CHL, and an emergency credit card) in a hidden pocket. He can have my wallet with maybe $20 cash and some discount cards as well as my old state ID (not a valid address).

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    So, here is the scenario: you and your spouse/sig. other, good friend, etc are out, having enjoyed a movie or dinner, etc. Your SA is up as normal. As you are walking to your car, you see a single (one)kid, about 12, walking towards you. He gets within about 10 feet and pulls out a nice shiny, chrome-plated revolver and points it at you and tells you to hand over all your stuff. What do you do now???
    He better hope that whatever he has is loaded and goes bang. Mine is and will.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    This scenario is one that I have contemplated, recently.


    Honestly, I don't know how I would react. That's why discussing it here, is a good thing.

    There's a disconnect in my mind, whether or not I'm morally justified in killing a kid, even if it is self defense.

    If I respond with deadly force, I'll be instantly labeled a baby killer. I have to admit that I'm worried if a reasonable juror would see it from my perspective.

    If I don't respond, I run the very real risk of me or my spouse being killed. If we subscribe to the theory that the kid has a disorder of some kind, due to over exposure of video games, then the threat has just become more violent. Because the kid knows no consequences. Therefore the probability of him killing is increased, there's a good chance he'll shoot to kill, even if his demands are met.


    Another dimension to this scenario, is the trend of gangs of young kids ambushing and beating people nigh unto death, to rob them. What if you're ambushed by more than one, all packing guns? Or clubs, or bats and bottles?

    Can we articulate our defense and prove AOJ?
    BUT......you'll be a Live babykiller.

  14. #74
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    OK, firstly, saying that video games are to blame for teens acting violently is absurd. At the end of the day, it all comes back to a complete lack of parenting/parental supervision. I am old enough to know better, but young enough to have played may fair share of violent games, but I had a mother who raised me right. I have never committed a violent crime...
    IDK, sometimes it is a bit of this and a dash of that. For certain, RL situations (brother in a gang, father in and out, mother hooked on crack, sister on meth, etc). are far greater factors.

    I went to a seminar once, and the speaker question entertainment and the effect on violence. He was balanced about it but one thing that stuck as a valid point was how for 99% of the population playing D&D for example is a good waste of time, but for that one 1%, say undiagnosed mental illness, a therapists tool (role play), is now a parlor game. Not suggesting that people should not play D&D, have guns, play games, play competitive sports, etc. However, you can't always blame the parent, because frankly, the culture is very aggressive in taking on the role, and that culture of norm has land mines for the less than normal.

    As to the OP, one of the most dangerous situation I've been in was children throwing m-80s (no so much targeting me, just trying to play a joke, but a lot of danger) as I was getting into my car. Could not fully defend myself, because what am I going to do, beat the pulp out of an 8 year old as he is running and trying to light an m-80. It was a mess, as every step started to turn into a balance between maybe retreat would have been better, to I should just beat on a few hard and fast to end them as a threat, and end the confrontation quickly.

    You had to be there, SA helped little, because the treats were so vicious, yet playful, unorganised, then focused, attacker running in fear, to not full tilt aggressive (like an m-80 water fight).

    Contrary to my reply to CCWFlaRuger, after the m-80s ran up, parents played a bit role in the problem. I marched to the door of the house a few of the children ran into. Mother answered, and stated "not her child." I called police, and get this, when police arrived mom was in the process of washing the hands of multiple children with bleach, to get the black powder off (and not just her children).

    LE let her know if she did not just come out and tell the truth, the would call protective service (or something in the direction) and test the children's hands for gunpower (m-80s were (are?) illegal in MI) and for bleach. He stated the bleach was child abuse, gunpower would prove multiple types of endangerment, and the combo proved obstruction of justice (I'n not sure if that term was correct or not, just what he stated).

    LE, privately, told me (most likely in frustration / jest), I should have "planted them."

    Unfortunately, children can be very dangerous, and maybe even more so when you are mowing your lawn then when you are in a warzone with SA up and ready. Just a simple fact, it is like worrying your cousins have stopped in to rob you blind, and you thought it was a suprise visit, you really can't live that way, but the threat is there.
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  15. #75
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divebum47 View Post
    Don't think I'll speculate, but one thing I can tell you from experience in a combat zone is that a 12 year old with a gun can kill you just as dead as a 32 year old with a gun.
    This is what I've gathered in my 24 years...

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