Firing Shots to Scare Off Trespassers? - Page 3

Firing Shots to Scare Off Trespassers?

This is a discussion on Firing Shots to Scare Off Trespassers? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Dusty1 Wow, lots of "don't do it" answers, but very little CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. So oakchas you would just hear noises late at ...

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Thread: Firing Shots to Scare Off Trespassers?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty1 View Post
    Wow, lots of "don't do it" answers, but very little CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. So oakchas you would just hear noises late at night, then leave you're wife and family to go look for licence plate numbers? Sweet deal.
    I gave you creative errr constructive criticisms... Claymores, toe poppers, IEDs.

    I live on 8 acres. If some fool wants to wander around on it... fine.. I hear noises all the time... and ignore them...

    I have 2 dogs that hear better than I. They know the usual sounds and bark or growl at the unusual ones. (that's a suggestion to get dogs if you don't have 'em) they will awaken me.

    I know the sounds my house makes. If there's an unusual noise (that the dogs don't pick up (very rare)), I'm on it... Armed. But the noise has to be in my house or outbuildings... not out in the back forty... I've got deer and other critters back there... they make noise... I don't fire a gun to make them stop.

    I have laid in wait for the idiots who play mailbox baseball... Scared the bejeesus out of em... and have not had an incident in the 20 years since... but I didn't draw a gun.. or fire over their heads..

    motion detection spotlights.. will discourage a lot...

    Now, if I have a crew of brigands assaulting the property (not likely til the economy get a little worse) assuming they're professionals or at least somewhat practiced... then I'm barricaded in my room... And I'm on the phone and I'm ready to take my shots as needed....

    Mebbe you've ot a big herd of prize cattle or sumthin on your property you are beholden to protect... and no insurance to cover a loss... well as long as you can stay up 24/7... you go and ride your range to protect 'em...

    you can go to the dollar store or harbor freight and buy magnetic self adhesive glued battery operated alarms for every door and window for about $1.50 apiece. you can get a motion detector alarm for the driveway that will send a signal to an inhouse beeper buzzer for <$20.00.

    You can buy a place at the end of 2 miles of road backed by 900 acres of state forest. (sounds like a nice place.. ) with your own IPDA capable range out back... And secure it with motion detectors and video,and electric fence if you want and can afford...

    So there are a lot of alternatives to shooting at the sky.... All you have to do is THINK... oh wait, I said that already....


    and I am only somewhat sorry to be such a smart ass here... Your OP was so incitefull most of us coudn't think of construtive criticism immediately... all we could think of sayin was "STOP THAT, IT"S STOOOPID!"

    HTH

    oakchas


  2. #32
    Member Array Dusty1's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for somthing I could use. I didn't say firing off shots was a good idea, or that anyone should do it, nor was the question about it, I just heard a bunch of people doing it around here and was looking for a better alternative. I can "think" but 2 minds are better than one. Isn't that why everyone joined the forums in the first place?

    Longrider, just like you I have a bit of land, and someone has to pass no tresspassing signs and go down around 900 feet of driveway to get to my house. Intent is evident by then. I'm also a contractor so I have thousands of dollars worth of tools, vehicles, and equipment, so even if they weren't coming for me, I'll be coming for them.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty1 View Post
    Longrider, just like you I have a bit of land, and someone has to pass no tresspassing signs and go down around 900 feet of driveway to get to my house. Intent is evident by then. I'm also a contractor so I have thousands of dollars worth of tools, vehicles, and equipment, so even if they weren't coming for me, I'll be coming for them.
    There you go depending on your state law. COM is an excellent warning shot. If you like you can download my No Trespass sign and laminate it at KeepOut.pdf. Written by a lawyer so it will help cover your bases. I have one of my wireless cameras focused on where they will be reading it to confirm they proceeded knowing doing so was a clear statement of intent. I of course will give any tapes to my lawyer and he can show them to LEO if he deems appropriate.
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Dusty... Look, I apologize for being a bit caustic in my responses...

    I did take the time to look at one of the subforum links here... Handgunlaw.us

    And, listed under deadly force in the Ohio section:

    2305.40. Immunity of owner, lessee or renter of real property as to self-defense or defense of others.
    2307.60 Civil action for damages for criminal act.
    2307.601 No duty to retreat in residence or vehicle.
    2901.05 Burden of proof - reasonable doubt - self-defense.
    2901.09 No duty to retreat in residence or vehicle.

    now that's just the titles from the subsections of the code of your state....

    from what I can gather there, without even looking at the statutes themselves... you can use Deadly force in SELF defense or defense of others.
    Not to defend property. So, like me in Iowa... if someone comes into your house... or into one of your contractor trailers for example... un armed... to take a chainsaw, contractor's saw, or your latest laser guided sliding compound miter saw... you cannot shoot him... ... You can probably hold him at gunpoint while the police arrive... a citizen's arrest... somewhere in your statutes you may even be able to use "any force necessary" to detain a felon...

    BUT...

    If he walks away with your cherished tool... and you shoot him... you will be in jail... you will lose your business, your home, and all you have worked for in your life... And perhaps any future income as well...

    Now, those are the facts (very probably, anyway; depending on the perp's lawyer).

    THINK about different ways to protect your property... Read your state and local laws, go to the library and get In the Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob... READ it... It can be read in about 8 hours total.

    Good luck and good reading

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Or, you can take Longrider's advice and ...

    you can use Deadly force in SELF defense or defense of others.
    Not to defend property. So, like me in Iowa... if someone comes into your house... or into one of your contractor trailers for example... un armed... to take a chainsaw, contractor's saw, or your latest laser guided sliding compound miter saw... you cannot shoot him... ... You can probably hold him at gunpoint while the police arrive... a citizen's arrest... somewhere in your statutes you may even be able to use "any force necessary" to detain a felon...

    BUT...

    If he walks away with your cherished tool... and you shoot him... you will be in jail... you will lose your business, your home, and all you have worked for in your life... And perhaps any future income as well...
    Good luck with that... I might, on a cold and snowy night, without a working cel phone, stuck out on the main road... trudge down your 900 foot drive, come banging on your door, hoping to use a phone... Shoot me if you will... My lawyer will eat you alive

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array RebelRabbi's Avatar
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    Firing a Warning Shot is allowed in most jurisdictions ONLY when all the elements of defense of life exist. This means that shooting the attacker would be as justified as firing the Warning Shot! Personally, if I fire my weapon it will be to stop a deadly attack, not to frighten or intimidate some unseen Boogey Man in the darkness.

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post

    Lethal force is justified in the state of Washington
    A) In defense of self and others,
    B) to stop malicious trespass
    C) to protect property
    D) to stop a felony
    E) to detain a dangerous felon that the shooter has reason to believe would be a danger to others if they escaped. Such as a rapist who is running away from committing a rape

    Livestock is property so yes you can shoot someone to protect your property. If someone is on your property illegally ie with out an invitation, warrant or your consent you can shoot them in defense of self, others and your property.

    Thanks. I dont remember reading C & D. I'll have to go back and read some more.


    And btw...I want to live at your house. (Would your wife consider that innappropriate?)
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    That would be okay in AZ if the aliens don't have their papers.
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    I know you said your Sheriff was busy, but I would advise your neighbors to call the Sheriff, and at minimum, file a report to document the problem.

    It never hurts to let your local LE agency know that there are unsavory characters hanging around your house.
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  11. #41
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    I'd call 911, get that done, arm yourself and collect your family and wait. If it escalates, do what you have to do. The consequences of shooting an innocent person will haunt you for life. Warning shots can turn into " negligent discharge of a firearm" real quickly.
    The rule of aiming at and definately shooting at ONLY what you intend to hit, applies here.
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  12. #42
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    I agree with everyone that say it violates simple firearms safety, etc. At the risk of being made fun of, I will say that it's not even safe firing the thing up in the air. I think there was an episode on "MythBusters" where they showed that people have died from people shooting guns up in the air as well as a segment on "1,000 Ways to Die" where someone supposedly died leaving a house on New Years - a guy fired a gun up in the air - a block away, the bullet came down and hit a guy walking out of a house with his date and hit him in the chest and he died. I know it's a goofy show but I do in all sincerity believe it's entirely possible for something like this to happen, etc.

    I also agree with the people that say its not a good idea because they might fire back! My dad and brother used to go coon hunting and they talked about people blindly shooting at them at night, etc. I don't know if they were tress passing or not and I'm not going to get into a big thing about whether they were in the right or wrong but the thing is - they did have guns (b/c they were hunting) & if they had been a bunch of lunatics they could have made an ugly situation out of it by confronting the shooter, etc.

    I also think its a bad idea to give warning shots because I believe in the age old adage, don't get your gun out unless you're willing to use it. If you shoot, shoot with a purpose and by that I don't mean you are shooting with a purpose to scare someone. Guns should be used for hunting, war and self-defense; they should not be abused and used as a prop to scare or intimidate people. I like the advice about being proactive and getting motion sensors and deterring people with lights, etc. No one has ever went to jail or wound up in court b/c a light sensor turned on some flood lights and scared someone that was messing around in someone's back yard. Let's also not forget to call the police if someone is tress passing; that's what they're there for, etc. I know it seems obvious and it's possible that the perp will be gone by the time the LEO gets there but at least there will be a record of it so if it happens again and an unfortunate escalation does result in a situation involving you with your firearm, it will at least be on record that you have been having trouble with tress passing - for whatever that may or may not be worth, etc.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Firing Shots to Scare Off Trespassers?

    Quote Originally Posted by RebelRabbi View Post
    Firing a Warning Shot is allowed in most jurisdictions ONLY when all the elements of defense of life exist. This means that shooting the attacker would be as justified as firing the Warning Shot! Personally, if I fire my weapon it will be to stop a deadly attack, not to frighten or intimidate some unseen Boogey Man in the darkness.
    Do you have a citation that supports this assertion?
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    I agree with everyone that say it violates simple firearms safety, etc. At the risk of being made fun of, I will say that it's not even safe firing the thing up in the air. I think there was an episode on "MythBusters" where they showed that people have died from people shooting guns up in the air as well as a segment on "1,000 Ways to Die" where someone supposedly died leaving a house on New Years - a guy fired a gun up in the air - a block away, the bullet came down and hit a guy walking out of a house with his date and hit him in the chest and he died. I know it's a goofy show but I do in all sincerity believe it's entirely possible for something like this to happen, etc.
    It IS possible, there are a few accounts of injuries and deaths. terminal velocity only comes into play when a projectile is fired pretty much directly up or dropped. most people don't fire at a perfect 90(+/- 5 degree) angle and this causes the bullet to retain much of its velocity through its flight path. it will be slower but still able to break skin.
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