it will be hard to hide the large crater and pair of smoldering shoes...
it will be hard to hide the large crater and pair of smoldering shoes...
We have some rural hunting land where we do lot of deer hunting. We have had our fair share of trespassers over the past 25+ years. About five years ago my brother-in-law was hunting from a tree stand and heard some guys and their dogs squirrel hunting within 75 yards of his location. Note the property line is some 500 yards or more away and is fenced. Here is what happened over the next 15 seconds:
BIL: Fires off one round of 7 Rem Mag into the ground.
Tresspassers: (moment of silence). "We hear ya'! We are outta here! We're leaving!"
try turning on the porch light. If they are not afraid to continue coming then you can wait for them when they enter. Boom
Ammo is to expensive to waste in such a frivalous way. If you can shoot a warning shot, you might as well just yell your armed, it would work the same way in my view.
When and if you have to pull the trigger it should always be for "center mass". My brother has an acreage and likes to use a wrist rocket and M80's. That should scare the hell out of them. Of course he is packing his S&W MP should they decide to get frisky.
In my case, the light was already on. "THERE IS NO HUNTING SEASON IN THE SPRING" other that turkeys because, for coons and others it is their breeding season. Spring Turkey season is gobblers only and is from sunrise to noon. The guys shooting in my woods were there after 11pm at night. I could hear birdshot hitting the trees in front of my house. My two shots were not fired in their direction or into the air. They were fired into the ground from an elevated (10 foot) high porch. Maybe calling 911 would have been a better idea, but when I dial 911, I usually get the state police, or the neighboring county, which is much closer than my county sheriff's office Otherwise my county sheriff's office is long distance for me. At any rate, there was no more shooting in our direction.
When younger, that was SOP to shoot a shotgun out in the country... to scare of trespassers or unwanted animals (coyotes, etc).
I have done it with a shotgun. I shot into the air to scare off some people trying to steal some cattle... because I couldn't shoot at them without also hitting the cattle. I then maneuvered around to where I was between them and the cattle, but they were running pretty hard and well out of range by that point.
Now, I carry a rifle with a handgun on my side, or an AR. Out there it's surrounded by hills, so no background issues.
Explain to me, exactly how is a corpse going to present the excuse you allege? How is a corpse going to convince a jury you needed to and have a right to; Walk past houses on the main road, up two miles of obscure unlit dirt road. A road that for the most part looks like a logging road. Walk past several clearly lit homes right on that dirt road. Than down the 900 feet of densely forested pitch black drive way. After you've been given fair warning, stating your intent to do me harm by proceeding. You've been video taped doing so, or choosing to ignore the notice. That is not the actions of a reasonable man. The instant you hit the clearing where my house is you are lite up with flood lights, (It is a bad idea to light your self up with porch lights and giving the BG a target) if the three 100 to 130 pounds Akitas don't have you my AR rounds will. NO ONE makes it to our door without our knowing. NO ONE has a right to be at my property uninvited. That is the law.
The advise given to me by the attorney who is reputed to be one of the best criminal lawyers in the Northwest. Who has tried more capitol cases in Washington, Montana, Oregon and Idaho than any other attorney. Is that based upon our state laws hostile invaders, i.e. uninvited intruders, trespassers can be shot in defense of property others and self. It has in fact happened repeatedly in this state with no bill. So while you may assume all you wish. The fact is that trespassers have been shot dead in this state with no legal consequence to the owner.
As I have repeatedly said know your state laws. Retain a lawyer follow his advise. Have him clarify the law to you. What you may assume is the law in your state does not apply to other states. Know where your feet are planted. Act accordingly. Hostile intruders on our property WILL be shot. You can bet your life on that.
Oddly enough I found myself thinking about this scenario this morning on my drive to work and one of the reasons I love this forum is because it makes you think and you can take advantage of the wisdom of older people that are kind enough to share with you the experience that they gained through personal encounters they have had, etc. I've heard the question posed on here before, when talking about SD situations, what would a jury say or how would a jury vote in response to a SD shooting? In all reality, as long as your using good judgment and practicing firearm safety, i.e. knowing what's behind your target, etc. you're probably not going to injure or kill anyone by firing a warning shot. An earlier post, for example, made a reference to firing into the ground (I'm only using this as an example and am not picking on the person that said this). Although I agree that by firing into the ground it is not going to result in injuring or harming anyone I also have to ask myself if I want to be known as that crazy old man that shoots at you at night if you are on his place. Unfortunately perception is reality to a lot of people. If people hear shots coming from your place at night, they have no idea that you are shooting into the ground. They have no idea that you are being safe and that you're not some crazy old man that shoots wildly at night. I don't condone trespassing and for the most part I really don't care what people think about me. I would care, however, if a perception that people had of me affected a ruling against me in a court trial. If I, for example, encountered a trespasser and through a series of events, a SD shooting came about as the consequence, where I come out as the survivor - I wouldn't want a "crazy old man" image or perception of me influence a jury. I'm not a lawyer and I have a very limited knowledge of the law so I may be totally off base here. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I fire off warning shots at night and I gain the perception as the crazy old man that shoots at night then even though I'm being safe by firing into the ground and I have no intention of shooting anyone unless my personal safety or that of my family is in danger - I don't want a perception of me affecting a court decision if I do have to defend myself someday in a court trial pertaining to a situation that started out as a trespassing offense. I believe that if you hold up in your house and call the police then you will be setting a good precedent if the trespassing continues and the whole thing eventually winds up in court. I realize it's frustrating to have unauthorized people on your property - it shouldn't happen - it should never happen. I also believe, however, that most people are going to judge you according to perception and not the facts. Unfortunately, the very fact that you have a gun will be a strike against in you in some people's mind and that you actually used it where someone else was either injured or killed is really not going to bode well with them. I may be getting off track here and it's not my intention but I do believe that when you fire warning shots, it is possible or it has potential to escalate where a shooting may occur. The end result to a lot of possible outcomes I'm proposing would be contingent upon actual circumstances but I think it still holds true that by becoming known as a crazy old man that fires at people at night could negatively affect you possibly more than the instant result you get when you are firing your warning shot. Your actions obviously whatever they may be will have consequences and I think sometimes we have to stop and think what is going to be the ultimate consequence as opposed to placing all of our focus on the immediate consequence. Although it is wonderful to get advice from a lawyer to decide on how you should proceed and it is wonderful to know what a lawyer thinks, ultimately it is what the judge thinks that is going to be the thing that really counts. As far as shooting someone just because they had the lack of judgment of being prepared and having a hope that they could count on me for help, I'm not going to shoot someone over that because there have been many times when I have been at the mercy of others. There have been times in my life when I have been left at the mercy of others and it came about irrespective of being prepared, my independence, my strength, my intelligence, etc. I'll stop here so as to not get off track. Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Grace & Peace,
all depends on where you live...
i live deep in the wooded mountains of northern VA. on about 18 acres... most properties out here are large acre wooded and farming plots.
if we hear noise in the middle of the night its usually a raccoon, coyote, deer, wildcats, or bears...
it is NOT uncommon to hear gun shots during the day or night around here.
but we also have a saying in these parts. no trespassing means NO TRESPASSING! and people will shoot... warning shot or not.
now go one county over and you can get locked up for discharging a firearm even on your own property regardless of acreage or how far you are from residence.
i suggest everyone move to Virginia... along with Texas we are the last TRUE american states. lol
just my two brownies
If I were in the wilderness or country, could be fairly sure the bullet wouldn't come down on somebody's head, and it were plain that only a single intruder were threatening me and mine, then I might consider firing warning shots.
But that'll never happen except on a camping/hiking trip, and very likely not even then. For me, I'll not be taking any warning shots. The legal weenies in my area are just crazy and fanatical enough to attempt prosecution of someone for the mere appearance of wanting to harm another, no matter how justified in defending against deadly threats. Let alone the actual risk of harming innocents/passersby in the 'burbs, if firing warning shots.
Besides, "warning" shots are almost assured of leaving the deadly threat alive and well, still "out there." Still a threat. Still capable of having a change of heart, altering tactics just enough to succeed in erasing me/mine. Viewed from the assailant's perspective, warning shots can be taken to imply weakness and lack of desire to go through with it (the kill). Bad, bad juju.
Far safer, IMO: Be prepared with non-lethal means of defense for everything up to deadly threats; for deadly threats, have effective "lethal" tools and tactics, and be competent enough to use them effectively and immediately ... until the threat no longer exists. That means, firing through the targets until the threat is gone, no matter the cost to the BGs, even if it kills them.
Ah come on guys.... we call it the 3 second warning. You shoot in the air, count to 3 , then take aim. It gives them a running chance. LOL.
Joking aside, 40 yrs ago they really did used to call it the 3 second warning around here. You had 3 seconds to get off the property or the 2nd shot would count.
Now, do you wonder why the 4 minute mile record was set by someone around here ?