Firing Shots to Scare Off Trespassers?

This is a discussion on Firing Shots to Scare Off Trespassers? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Very bad idea. You weapon is to be used/for defensive and target shooting (controlled) purposes. Agree with many posters here that you are putting yourself ...

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Thread: Firing Shots to Scare Off Trespassers?

  1. #76
    New Member Array pa5906tsw's Avatar
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    Very bad idea. You weapon is to be used/for defensive and target shooting (controlled) purposes. Agree with many posters here that you are putting yourself at risk from a liability perspective. Call the police and remain vigilant.

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  3. #77
    Member Array bsms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    ...Anyone coming over ... will call ahead and let you know they are coming so they dont' get shot.

    A warning shot in the air is a courtesy as well as to scare off predatory animals. .... human or otherwise. Second shots are not warnings.
    2 questions:

    1) Are you willing to shoot someone for trespassing?

    2) What state do you live in?

  4. #78
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    Wow...

    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    I personally would NOT fire. I think I would set up motion sensor lights at the buildings which house my most valuable property (i.e. my home, my barn, my storage shed, etc). In addition I would definitely invest in a high powered hand held "torch" (translate to highpower flashlight), so that IF I heard someone, or if one of the motion sensor lights lit up the night, I could also scan the area. With all that being said, I would ALWAYS have my most favored SD weapon at hand, whether it be my shottie with double aught buckshot or my Glock...JMO


    I skimmed through most all of the posts on this thread (except for DEFCONGUN'S #55 -- HINT: Formatting is our friend) and realized that I was reading with my own future in mind.

    Eventually my wife and I want to retire and leave the heat and storms of Miami, FL and go someplace more placid and cooler with maybe some real seasons like North Georgia or western North Carolina and live a more "rural" lifestyle, but not too "woods-y" because my wife doesn't like critters bigger or meaner than our dogs. So kinda like Asheville, NC in or very near "town" perhaps in a development or something.

    The answer above rings very close to my feelings. Sensors, perhaps not motion because tree branches would set them off, but things like thermal or pressure or a beam in the breach of the driveway... something along those lines, I think. I would also have a few outdoor cameras, infrared and night vision which can be had quite inexpensively, nowadays.

    I would also have a few proactive means of warning folks like maybe a few outdoor Public Address speakers in trees ringing the property. That way, once a presence is detected by the sensors and determined to be human by the cameras, a switch can be flipped and lights in that areas brought on and a speaker activated into which I can whisper instructions... NOT yell, just whisper so that only the area around the speaker will be affected. No need to disturb the neighbors, before it's absolutely necessary.

    If you look around at websites like Night Vision SALE Night Vision Goggles, Night Vision Scopes FREE UPS NightVision binoculars ATN ITT Bushnell Yukon Tasco US Night Vision binoculars Nite Vision or Home Protection Products or especially THIS site (surf around here) Miscellaneous Electronics/Surveillance - - SHOMER-TEC. You'll find that there are levels of security open to regular folks that could rival somebody like Bill Gates, if you only know what to look for and an idea on application.

    All these are simply layers of defense, until it becomes blatantly clear that push HAS come to shove. That will eventually become apparent to any subsequent involvement by authorities who have to come clean up the final results of a committed attack against you and yours. Done correctly, all of this security can also become powerful weapons of EVIDENCE if you also have the means to record the penetration of your electronic perimeter and track the incursions. All of that is possible. It's just another layer and a pretty inexpensive one at that. So don't despair. You can do this and you can do it on a shoe string budget as you like.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  5. #79
    Member Array bsms's Avatar
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    Kansas law:

    "21-3212. (a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that it appears to such person and such person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's unlawful entry into or attack upon such person's dwelling or occupied vehicle.

    (b) A person is justified in the use of deadly force to prevent or terminate unlawful entry into or attack upon any dwelling or occupied vehicle if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or another.

    (c) Nothing in this section shall require a person to retreat if such person is using force to protect such person's dwelling or occupied vehicle."

    "21-3213. Use of force in defense of property other than a dwelling. A person who is lawfully in possession of property other than a dwelling is justified in the threat or use of force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating an unlawful interference with such property. Only such degree of force or threat thereof as a reasonable man would deem necessary to prevent or terminate the interference may intentionally be used."

    Kansas Statutes 21-3213 - Use of force in defense of property other than a dwelling: :: Lawserver

  6. #80
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    Wink Hey Toto...

    Quote Originally Posted by bsms View Post
    Kansas law:

    "21-3212. (a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that it appears to such person and such person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's unlawful entry into or attack upon such person's dwelling or occupied vehicle.

    (b) A person is justified in the use of deadly force to prevent or terminate unlawful entry into or attack upon any dwelling or occupied vehicle if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or another.

    (c) Nothing in this section shall require a person to retreat if such person is using force to protect such person's dwelling or occupied vehicle."

    "21-3213. Use of force in defense of property other than a dwelling. A person who is lawfully in possession of property other than a dwelling is justified in the threat or use of force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating an unlawful interference with such property. Only such degree of force or threat thereof as a reasonable man would deem necessary to prevent or terminate the interference may intentionally be used."

    Kansas Statutes 21-3213 - Use of force in defense of property other than a dwelling: :: Lawserver
    I've been to Kansas just twice. Once as an ROTC cadet for summer camp at Fort Riley, where rumor has it that before riding off to the Little Big Horn, General Custer left a standing order: "Don't change a thing till I return!" And of course he never did, but they "obeyed" the order which is why Riley was always considered such a pit of hell kind of post...

    The other time was much later when I was on active duty and had to attend a classified briefing with my boss while I worked on the general staff for a "2-star" and then I got to re-experience the wonder known as JULY in Kansas. Yeeeessssss, when we (in our office green uniforms -- not fatigues) bent over the trunk of the rental and came away with a dark stripe of MELTED RUBBER GASKET across the front of our trousers... we knew we didn't want to be in KANSAS any longer than necessary!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #81
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsms View Post
    2 questions:

    1) Are you willing to shoot someone for trespassing?

    2) What state do you live in?
    That's not what was said, now was it.

    Liability for what ? Taking a gun with you when you go to check why someone is on your property ? .... in an area where in the past cattle rustlers have killed people if they interfered with them, or people have been killed by folks thinking they'ld be easy targets out in the country (no living witnesses & no interference), and hunters illegally hunting on your land will often have no qualms to take pot shoots at you ? Around there , anyone carrying or having guns on them while on their farns is like having wheels on their truck ... common practice. There are rattlesnakes, etc. out there too, ya know. We're not talking the city.

    Then, there's the night time, where it is pitch black and anyone out on someone else's property without the owner's knowledge or uninvited at night is not considered a good thing at all. That's when a warning shot into the air ... notifies his neighbors 1 1/2 miles away that something is up... and that anyone who is stupid enough to not leave at that point becomes highly suspect as a potential threat. Good intentioned folks will have their lights on, would stop to talk to you first to let you know they were there and why, who would make sure you know they are around.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  8. #82
    Member Array bsms's Avatar
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    What was said was "Anyone coming over ... will call ahead and let you know they are coming so they dont' get shot. A warning shot in the air is a courtesy as well as to scare off predatory animals. .... human or otherwise. Second shots are not warnings."

    Under the law, as I read it, a person doesn't need to call ahead so they don't get shot.

    I don't agree with 'warning shots', but that is strictly personal opinion if the warning shot is fired to a known backstop. If it is fired into darkness without a known backstop, then the person firing risks hitting and killing someone for trespassing.

  9. #83
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsms View Post
    What was said was "Anyone coming over ... will call ahead and let you know they are coming so they dont' get shot. A warning shot in the air is a courtesy as well as to scare off predatory animals. .... human or otherwise. Second shots are not warnings."

    Under the law, as I read it, a person doesn't need to call ahead so they don't get shot.

    I don't agree with 'warning shots', but that is strictly personal opinion if the warning shot is fired to a known backstop. If it is fired into darkness without a known backstop, then the person firing risks hitting and killing someone for trespassing.
    You dont' live in the country , do you. Gee, we don't know squat about the "laws" and was hoping someone would come along and explain them to us. I think country folk are a lot more familiar with 'background' and backstops then tem thar city folk.

    The comments were all related to "at night" ...... and if you are uninvited and unknown on someone else's property, in an area that is pitch black, little to no cell phone service, for some unknown reason.... you are suspect as to why you are there. You will be approached and considered a potential threat until you are identified as a friend and/ or leave the property.

    If someone wants to come over at night, or go late night fishing, they will let you know first around there. We do have cattle, etc. to protect. IF a coyote or other predator is out there, we will scare it off or shoot it, and you don't want to get accidentally shot because no one knew you were there ... fishing on the other side in the line of fire. So, you let people know ahead of time, so you don't get shot, or mistaken for a predator or a cattle rustler. There are people who steal cattle, and who have killed people for interferring with them.

    IF there is a warning shot, it serves two purposes.... it lets the person know it's time they leave or the coyote, etc. to run away, as well as to let the neighbor 1 1/2 miles down the road know that something is up. The point was, noone gives 2 warning shots, even to a coyote. IF they shoot a 2nd time, it's for a good reason, but not likely as a warning.

    Uh, out in the country... if we hear a shot any time of day, we'll likely tell you what caliber it is, how far away it was, who's property it was on, and if it's from someone's gun that lives in that direction or not.

    Uh, there are 3 tall hills surrounding our property, and the 4th direction there is no one for 6 miles. We know our back stops. Plus, the warning shot would be from a shotgun, so it's not going to put one pellet even off the property, or to the nearest neighbor's property even if there were no hills.

    Do you really think we are that friggin stupid ? Give me a break.
    Can we have some intelligent discussions. People in the country have other things to be concerned with outside of "people", and may shoot ... for quite good reasons. Depending upon the areas, there are predator animals out there and livestock to protect....

    And if you live on a 20 acre lot outside of town, you aren't in the country .
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  10. #84
    Member Array bsms's Avatar
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    I don't live in the country, nor do the vast majority of folks who make laws. Intelligent discussions DO include thinking about what the law says.

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silo View Post
    You live in a world with the sheeple, then.
    That you think that because hard working self reliant self sufficient people teach their kids respect for others and what others own. Makes them sheeple tells me all I need to know about you lack of perception and intellect. Do you even know the definition of the word?

    Quote Originally Posted by silo View Post
    Maybe it's different in Washington, but I grew up in the country here in Missouri, surrounded by nothing more than corn, corn, corn, and pigs on each side.
    Duhh you think? Your perception of the obvious is unparalleled. Of course the Washington Peninsula is dramatically different from Missouri. I live in a wilderness area, as I have already said the front of my property joins 900 acres of densely timbered forestry land. I know what my back stop is. The forestry land in turn is connected to the Olympic National Forest in excess of 922,561 acres not counting, state land forestry lands and other undeveloped lands that are connected to it, clear to the ocean. Arguably the largest pristine wilderness area in the lower 48. The other side of my property is a 900 foot bluff overlooking Hoods Canal, protected wetlands (the Skokomish river valley) and the Olympic mountain range no one is coming up that side of our property. As I have said the only way in is the two mile logging road than down our densely forested 200 yard driveway that has wireless video cameras and motion sensors. A more detailed description of my property and security is posted here, Where are you at if SHTF today

    Silo giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you are fully aware that the topic of this thread is about criminal trespassers on private property as stated in the original post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty1 View Post
    I live in the country where it is common for criminals to trespass and steal from others.
    It is not about stranded motorists, grandpa having a heart attack, peg legged granny bailing out of a burning plane or Hansel and Gretel dropping bread crumbs across your property. Those people especially would not come to my property for all the reasons I have stated.

    Giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you have read my posts in their entirety. Enough that you feel qualified to make a statement of what I think. My posts have been clear that my response has been focused criminal trespassers my wilderness property under Washington state law

    In my 1st post, post #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    If they are thieves or vandals I shoot COM to protect property or the safety of my family and livestock as authorized by my state's laws. The only warning shots they get are the ones that penetrate them.
    That would mean I have identified the targets and shot them center of mass as authorized by state law.

    In my 2nd post, post #28
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    My shots to scare off animals hit the berm that is the backstop for my handgun range. Behind it is 900+ acres of state forestry lands. I know where ALL my shots go.
    To get to my driveway someone has to come nearly two miles up a dirt road off the closest road. No one comes 2 miles up an obscure dirt road looking for aid. Anyone coming to my house has to come through 200 yards of densely forested driveway the entry is clearly posted with a no trespass sign.........


    By proceeding they have declared their intent to harm me and mine. By the time they have read the sign I have them on video camera, sensors have alerted me to their presence. Once they enter the clearing to my yard they are hit with spot lights so that they can clearly see the red blossoms appearing on their chest. I know where all my shoots go, as I said my warning shots to trespassers are COM.
    Explaining once again why no one just wanders onto our property. I clearly know who anyone entering my property is as I watch them arrive on video camera than watch them drive walk the 200 yards to the clearing that is my yard. They are clearly identified. They have sent me notice by their actions of their intent. They are lit up with flood lights the instant they enter into the clearing that is our yard. Long before I take aim and fire at the hostile invaders trespassing onto my property.

    In my 3rd post, post #33
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    I have one of my wireless cameras focused on where they will be reading it to confirm they proceeded knowing doing so was a clear statement of intent.
    Once again I state how I have identified the trespassers and have determined their intent long before they see me.

    In my 4th post, post #54
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    convince a jury you needed to and have a right to; Walk past houses on the main road, up two miles of obscure unlit dirt road. A road that for the most part looks like a logging road. Walk past several clearly lit homes right on that dirt road. Than down the 900 feet of densely forested pitch black drive way. After you've been given fair warning, stating your intent to do me harm by proceeding. You've been video taped doing so, or choosing to ignore the notice. That is not the actions of a reasonable man. The instant you hit the clearing where my house is you are lite up with flood lights, (It is a bad idea to light your self up with porch lights and giving the BG a target) if the three 100 to 130 pounds Akitas don't have you my AR rounds will. NO ONE makes it to our door without our knowing. NO ONE has a right to be at my property uninvited. That is the law.
    Each post clearly describe how extremely difficult it is to just wander onto my property. How I have clearly identified who the hostile invaders trespassing on my property are. As well as how I have a clear shot at them when needed and what my backstop is. You initial post presents a complete straw-man argument

    In my 5th post post #68
    In response to your initial post
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Complete straw man argument........................
    where has anyone said they would shoot an unarmed helpless child?
    Fact is I know all six children that live on this hill. They know better than to trespass. Stray kids from the highway off this hill do not wander onto my property for all the reason explained. When asked "where has anyone said they would shoot an unarmed helpless child? You seem incapable of answering the question regarding your accusation. Instead you respond with personal insults and attacks. Again giving you the benefit of a doubt, that you are capable of comprehending what the topic of this thread is. That you can understand what I wrote and that you are NOT a complete and absolute inbred moron. There is only one conclusion left, that your statement

    Quote Originally Posted by silo View Post
    And you think it's OK to shoot randomly into the darkness without knowing the target or what's behind you?
    Is an intentional, deliberate, bold faced lie. Fabricated to justify your rude, pointless, snide, insulting attack. You post a lie you know is exactly contrary to everything I have said and pathetically attempt to attribute it to me. Pretty clear what that make you.
    Tells me everything I need to know about you, your honor, and integrity. What kind of man and human being you are.
    Last edited by LongRider; July 6th, 2010 at 05:40 PM.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Silo this forum has an ignore function for those I think are dishonest deceitful, or just plain do not like. I use it. You've made my ignore list. Although you are free to hop on your mule and trespass on someones property in Washington state if you doubt the veracity of what I have said. Honestly it is my fondest wish at the moment that you will test our states laws, and trespass on private property here in our state. More than a few will be happy to laugh at any attempt by your next of kin to sue them.
    Last edited by LongRider; July 6th, 2010 at 06:50 PM.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  13. #87
    Member Array jbourneidentity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Given that even out in the boonies you are responsible for every round fired, and where it ends up, it is generally a bad idea to give "warning shots".

    Having been lost, or broken down, in the boonies and having to walk upon a farm house in the middle of nowhere before, it would not be looked upon favorably by your's truly if you were to discharge a weapon while I was walking up to your house. Also, this practice of "warning shots" goes against the standard rules of gun safety.

    You need to know what your target is, and what lies beyond your target. I'm not there to steal, but I can understand the frustration of the homeowners, and even empathise with them. The thing is, introducing a gun on an unknown is a good way to have things go real bad, real fast.

    I won't be slinking around either. I'll be the guy hollerin' "Hello in the house!" I won't begrudge anyone answering the door in such a situation with a gun down by their side, just don't point it at me. Chances are, if I come to your door, and I don't know you, it's because I've already had a really bad day. I would hate to make a bad day worse by getting in a gunfight.

    Biker
    +1000!

    BikerRN's advice is always excellent.

    I believe it was Clint Smith who said every bullet that leaves your gun has a lawyer attached to it. Truer words have never been said.

    There's a case from about 2 years ago in Sherwood, Arkansas, not far from my home where a homeowner, frustrated by multiple thefts from his property, exited his home with his Ruger .22. He confronted two juveniles who were attempting to make off with his ATV. They fled. In frustration, he fired a "warning shot" in their "general direction." A round entered the area under the armpit of one of the boys and traveled across his torso and through the "serious plumbing." The boy fell on his face and died at the scene. As expected, the homeowner was charged criminally. I'm not sure of the case's disposition but I will find out. Oh, and the shooting was cross-racial. The homeowner was white, and the juvenile was black. Now Pandora's Box has really been opened.

    Note to self: Warning shots are like hotel bars or flights on commercial airliners...no good can come from them.

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Shooting with out seeing the target can get someone killed. If you need to scare off trespassers try using some blank loads.

  15. #89
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    Shooting with out seeing the target can get someone killed. If you need to scare off trespassers try using some blank loads.
    That's actually a good idea, I feel silly for not thinking of it.

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    Shooting with out seeing the target can get someone killed. If you need to scare off trespassers try using some blank loads.
    Or shouting....

    Why threaten with lethal force??

    Why make things complicated between blanks and live ammo? You're using a firearm inappropriately....use it for defense of life (yours, family)...not as an attention-getter.

    This remind me of a quote: If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

    Just because you have a firearm, doesn't mean you have to use it for everything.

    I say, use common sense first...
    LongRider likes this.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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