guy goes to grab my wife's purse.... - Page 3

guy goes to grab my wife's purse....

This is a discussion on guy goes to grab my wife's purse.... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by StratDefsCon Glad to hear that it all worked out. I agree with everyone that it is a bad idea, and in some ...

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Thread: guy goes to grab my wife's purse....

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratDefsCon View Post
    Glad to hear that it all worked out.

    I agree with everyone that it is a bad idea, and in some places illegal, to tell anyone that you are armed unless needed as a last resort. Doing so in an attempt to scare someone off can get her a first hand view of how the police respond to a man (woman) with a gun call.
    One idea is for your wife train herself to put her hand on the gun while it in her purse when confronted. Just be sure that her purse is designed for this, or the gun is carried in such a way, such as in a holster, that it is safe to do so. That way, if the purse is snatched, she will still have possesion of the gun.
    A can of pepper spray carried in the weak hand can also give a few seconds to get away or prepare for further attack.

    Hope this helps.
    I am not to sure that telling someone you have a gun is illegal anywhere. Threating to use your gun might be, but as long as you don't produce it I don't think brandising could be applied here.

    IANAL and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

  2. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaker View Post
    she agreed when i said she needs to carry it on her person more often.
    I'm sure you know this already, but ...

    Carrying it "more often" in a manner that it'll be accessible is fine. But how is she to know what the next situation is going to be like? It might or might not be similar to what she just experienced.

    She's disabled. She's seen as a potential juicy target. If she's not paying great attention to her purse, it's likely to be the most probable thing taken from her. If it's clearly obvious she can't run after a person, a quick grab is highly likely.

    She needs to be carrying the firearm on her person ALWAYS, else such situations are going to get the better of her at some point.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaker View Post
    now here's the kicker, her gun is in her purse; she has a conceal carry purse.
    Bad idea. Someone grabs her purse from her, he also now has her gun.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."


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  5. #34
    Member Array Orange Boy's Avatar
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    My first thoughts have been mentioned already:

    There was an assault

    Management needs a thumping

    The cop was wrong

    Purse carry is not a great idea

    Pepper spray is good to have. The last thing on this guys mind after a face full of Sabre Red will be rooting around in your purse.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Another possiblity would be for her to carry a purse with no valuables in it and carry her gun and valuables in a fanny pack or other method. The addition of OC woulld give her another option. This would allow her to relenquish the purse with no struggle and still not suffer the loss of any valuables. In her particular case this might be the safest option.

    I may have been too brief in my previous posts so I thought I would elaborate on my thinking.

    My response was based strictly on what was contained in the OP and if I felt the elements of the crimes were present. That interpretation was based on my own experience and could be very different from that of someone with similar experience.

    First, based on the narrative in the OP, it appears to show at the least an incomplete job on the part of the officer. Failure of the officer to question whether she had to struggle to maintain control of the purse and other similar questions of her and other witnesses. These questions and their answers would further the clarity of the situation and more clearly establish an assault or attempted robbery. Whether this occurred and was inadvertently left out by the OP is unknown.

    Departmental policies enacted by departmental executives have a significant influence on arrests made by their officers. These may be influenced by case law, local or otherwise, civil litigation the department has been involved in, in addition to and views of individual executives and Watch Sargeants or Watch Commanders who must approve the arrests that any officer brings in. Some (W/S & W/C ) tend to be less demanding on their requirements, some more stringent. That was the reason for my original comment re the approval of the W/Sergeant.

    Hopefully this will clarify the thoughts related to my earlier posts.

  7. #36
    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaker View Post
    telling people she's armed, she says it scares people away...
    It probably does help to scare some people off, but you're right she shouldn't tell someone once they already have a hold of her purse. At that point, it's more like saying "I did have a gun, but now you're holding it. So watch out...I mean...****!"
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    The first thing the BG gos for is the purse. She needs to carry the gun on her person.

  9. #38
    Array Quicksabre's Avatar
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    Detroit, MI USA
    No crime? Putting your wife in fear of imminent attack qualifies, I believe. If he did that to my wife (she and I are 3rd degree black belt, due to test for our 4th degree next month) - he would have been spitting up teeth and howling over a shattered knee or two.

    You asked for advice - I understand she is somewhat disabled, and for that reason especially she needs to get that 9mm on her person, at all times.

    Out of the purse. In a holster. Practice lots drawing it.
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    I hate to say this about a fellow LEO, but he's an idiot. Strong arm robbery is a crime, a felony in most states. In many states you're allowed to use deadly force to defend your property. Your wife would have probably been jusified in shooting him.
    I don't think she should advertise that she's armed, one day someone will take it upon themselves to disarm her. She's also far too vulnerable to carry in her purse, this may be a good lesson for her.
    I would see an attorney, since the store allows a dangerous individual to loiter on the premises and intimidate customers, they need to be sued.
    Finally, anytime an incident involving a firearm occurs, by all means call the police. Nothing impresses a jury and judge more than a paper trail.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
    Edge of Darkness

  11. #40
    Member Array beaker's Avatar
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    wow this struck quite a few chords. more then i was expecting. thank you all for your replies.

    now to clear a few things up. this came at a bad time as i am in route to the desert. so i won't be on all that often to clear things up at least till i get there and get settled in the next few days.

    she was in fear once the guy grabbed her purse and asked of the contents. so the fear was there, and it was at that moment she started to back away. i will no doubt bring all of your suggestions to her.

    she did recently purchase a bersa 380. she does carry that when she walks the dog.

    she did mention having to spend money on a wardrobe. i just said your life is more important then spending several hundred bucks on some cloths.

    i'll definitely recommend she speak to a lawyer.

    her disability by the way, if it helps explain things, she broke her back several years ago. had a bilateral fracture in L5 or L7 iirc. thanks to some incompetent doctors in the military, it wasn't found right away. and it was just to late to do immediate surgery to correct it and fix it properly.

    if i forgot anything, sorry, i'm running low on juice on my laptop and no plugs in sight. next time i log on i'll spend a little more time reading and replying to anything i missed.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    That clarifys things considerably.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Paragraph 1. If you would show me any indication of fear on her part in the OP, I might agree.

    Paragraph 2. I saw nothing in the OP that indicated that he tried to take the purse away from her, just that he tried to ascertain the contents. I saw no demand for money, just a statement, "I need money." Again, I saw nothing indicating that he tried to take the purse away from her.

    Paragraph 3. Agreed, but I don't think that the intent to deprive her of her property has been illustrated, merely obnoxious behavior by a person with apparent mental problems.

    Paragraph 4. It is whatever the DA's office will file or gets a conviction on.

    Maybe the OP will add some details re the items in question that may help clarify things.
    I'm not going to have legal arguments nor debates about it with you. You asked a question, and I answered it. You believe what you want. HERE he could be arrested on those charges. It would be up to the LEO there and the person (wife in this case) whether to pursue it to that level or not. Here, I've seen people get arrested on a simple assault charge for just 'touching' someone at all.

    Any attempt to deprive an owner of "anything" , even for 2 seconds, against their will (especially if expressed) is an attempted robbery here, and in some cases could be considered as a theft.

    Maybe this will help , then ... maybe not.

    Kansas :
    Statute 21-3408: Assault. (aka Simple Assault)
    Assault is intentionally placing another person in reasonable apprehension of immediate bodily harm.
    Assault is a class C person misdemeanor.

    This means that you don’t even have to touch someone to be found guilty of this assault charge.

    21-3410. Aggravated assault. Aggravated assault is an assault, as defined in K.S.A.
    21-3408 and amendments thereto, committed:
    (a) With a deadly weapon;
    (b) while disguised in any manner designed to conceal identity; or
    (c) with intent to commit any felony.
    Aggravated assault is a severity level 7, person felony.

    Statute 21-3426: Robbery.
    Robbery is the taking of property from the person or presence of another by force or by threat of bodily harm to any person.
    Robbery is a severity level 5, person felony.

    So the Assault could go immediately to an Aggravated Assault "IF" they were attempting to rob them, which is a felony. Which "forcibly trying to take her purse" would apply.

    21-3412. Battery.
    (a) Battery is:
    (1) Intentionally or recklessly causing bodily harm to another person; or
    (2) intentionally causing physical contact with another person when done in a rude, insulting or angry manner.
    (b) Battery is a class B person misdemeanor.
    Last edited by Eagleks; June 26th, 2010 at 12:32 AM.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    get her a kahr, it will fit on body nicely
    Find me a better paying job and I'll get one. I tried to get her to look at one, she had her heart set on the XD sc 9. That's what she has now. Heck, I am still trying to get her to get a CCP. We are currently at a stale mate, she want's it but does not want to take the public class. And she does not want to fork over the money for the private class.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  15. #44
    Member Array Yeti's Avatar
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    Why oh why do u people continue to shop at the w -k marts ?????
    It's amazing how many post about the bg are at wal mart !!!!
    Do you at least understand how bad they mess up the country ? Mom and pop shops ? Your local econmy ?????
    Are you kidding .. U get robbed while you are shopping to rob your local econmy ??????

    " the socks are cheap "
    you shop there you deserve the scum you Incounter !
    Last edited by JD; June 29th, 2010 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Addressed via PM.

  16. #45
    Member Array beaker's Avatar
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    ok i know this was a while ago. but the discussions between me and her finally stopped about this. she's pretty much refused everything y'all have mentioned. my wife is not the typical gun carrier. she carries it for protection of course, but she still thinks, "it won't ever happen to me" thats basically what she said to me today "look it was almsot 2 months ago, it probably won't happen again" but yet it seems like when she's alone she attracts the scum bags. already since i've been gone for a month, she's encountered 2 scum bags.

    her excuses get really lame too. she has to have an excuse for EVERYTHING. when i mentioned the pepper spray idea, she said, what if the guy is on drugs, it won't effect him. i just said, what if he's not? it will still effect his vision, giving you that extra edge. i said, besides, its just an extra tool to use in case.. JUST LIKE A GUN. its not a requirement to use the pepper spray first. she has a stun gun (one of those up close and personal ones) but she doesn't carry it. says its impractical... she wouldn't let people get that close. but yet it just happened here.

    i mentioned of course that she told the guy what was in the purse as she was walking away. what's to stop him from doing something then. you're facing away from him and not expecting it. you're disabled. now he's got your purse and you're unprotected. of course all she could say was all he wanted was money. i told her she doesn't know that for sure. criminals use ploys like that to get close to their victims. its like she thinks people don't have malicious intent unless provoked.. and/or she can change that intent with just words. with telling someone she's armed.

    it seems to be the same excuses no matter what i say. she's worse then an TRUE anti gun person. and i try to talk to her in a polite way to try and change her mind. talking to her with respect and not talking down to her to teach her the importance of these things. but she some how turns it negatively and raises her voice when all i'm trying to do is help her learn from past scenarios. i tell her things like i'm concerned for her safety. she should do everything she can to protect herself. but refuses. i really don't know what else to do.

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