June 23rd, 2010 08:32 PM
guy goes to grab my wife's purse....
my head is spinning right now in bafflement. so i'm more or less typing this to help me get my thoughts straight. i would like input of course. maybe what you would have done.
my wife was by herself at wally world the other day. it was like 7am. as she's walking in, right before the door there are newspaper dispensers. a headline catches her eye... she stops to read it.
out of the side of her eye, she notices some employees on break talking, smoking. one of "them" walks over towards her and before she cold react gets close enough to her you couldn't slip a piece of paper between them. he shoves his debit card in her face and says "i need money." this guy is mental by the way (i don't recall what they said he had) and turns out he wasn't a wal-mart employee but was wearing the typical blue t-shirt they wear. he frequents the area and causes trouble with some customers. but the employees let him stay around and talk to him. i guess they get a good laugh out of him. but he's known to make a lot of customers uneasy and nervous when he confronts them.
it startled her at first but thought it was a joke and says "uh, sorry i don't really have any money." the guy then grabs her purse and says, "whats in here" now here's the kicker, her gun is in her purse; she has a conceal carry purse. she says "something dangerous" the guy says "oh what, a bear" she says "no, like a 9mm" and he walked away.
now my wife is borderline disabled. she really cannot run. she has to use a cane sometimes to walk. she didn't have it with her this time. she loves informing people she's armed. maybe it's just me, i don't like telling people, especially men, bigger then me, close enough to me to take advantage of me, that i have something that they would want like a gun. especially in the case that he's grabbing on to what contains her gun. i told her she's lucky he was mental. if he was a criminal he could have grabbed your purse and you'd be SOL. i told her it would have went like this whats in here, a gun, ah don't hurt me, bang bang bang... bang. now its mine. what else is in there???
she agreed when i said she needs to carry it on her person more often. especially when alone but as far as to stop telling people she's armed, she says it scares people away... not always, not when someone has the upper hand on you already.
she of course called the cops. but what irked me, one of the managers told her she shouldn't call the cops.
the responding officer said there was no crime. and if she did pull her gun she could have been charged. to me, if he grabbed her purse, he (a mental person) is now in possession of a gun... YOUR GUN (another offense in itself), your only form of self defense. it's officially a life threatening situation. the cop kind of agreed. but he did say, "you know how to prevent something like this? next time, don't say a gun when someone asks what's in your purse. walk away, say leave me alone, if he approaches you then, pull your gun..." she was only a few feet from the entrance by the way
June 23rd, 2010 08:38 PM
He grabbed her purse and the cop said there was no crime? Anyway, I am glad your wife is ok.
June 23rd, 2010 08:45 PM
I'm glad I don't have these types of people hanging around my local Walmart. You or her should speak with upper management. If they are aware of the guy and he is causing trouble I don't understand why they allow him to hang around. Walmart is private property and he can be told to leave if he is being disruptive.
Should she have told him there was a gun in the purse? I can't answer that. It worked this time but one day she might meet that person that is not scared and as you said has the jump on her. Glad she is safe.
June 23rd, 2010 08:58 PM
it wasn't like he tried to take it from her. just grabbed it and shook it as he was asking whats in here. he took his hand off after asking the question.
Originally Posted by mr.stuart
we did talk to upper management. upper management is just now learning about him it seems. he's been around for the past few months. i guess the lower employees like him. they didn't see him causing any problems. i guess they thought he was funny. but many of the upper employees were learning about him and did see it is causing problems. the manager did say she was going to put a trespassing warning on the guy. one employee did give the times he likes to come by so the cop said they would patrol the area more during those times. so we'll see.
June 23rd, 2010 09:04 PM
Yikes! Glad you wife is ok.
She should take her can with her more often... it would be a great defensive too. Hook the guys leg and put him on his back.
June 23rd, 2010 09:12 PM
Happy everything turned out ok. I'd take the cane and if he reached for her again she should whack the snot out of him.
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June 23rd, 2010 09:15 PM
He was begging for a snout full of OC spray, if you ask me, and honestly, he is lucky your wife is as confident as she is and didn't shoot him! That could have had a much worse ending... oh, and NEVER TELL!!! If you tell, it is no longer concealed, and you have surrendered your element of surprise.
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June 23rd, 2010 09:18 PM
First, I'm gald she is ok.
These type of incidents can be very difficult. Perceiving the mood and intent of those with mental conditions can be extremely difficult.
Virtually nothing, crime wise, maybe a disturbing the peace if you stretch it.
I understand her using the presence of her gun as a deterrent, but I would strongly try to convince her that it is a bad idea. OC spray might be a better idea, as might be some training using her cane in a SD mode.
June 23rd, 2010 09:28 PM
Spray him in the face (OC), and kick him in the nuts, but don't stand around to see the crazy man dance.
I would definitely write a letter to HQ and explain the situation to them. Tell them that you would rather not involve your attorney if someone would just give the local management an attitude adjustment. Tell them that someone should deal with a known 'customer problem' in that store, and that you would like a written response with their solution if they would like to keep it on a civil level...you just want customers to feel safe.OMOYMV
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June 23rd, 2010 11:50 PM
I'm sorry but I'd have had the gun out as soon as he touched the purse. DW knows she's slow and she keeps her hand on the gun in the parking lot I think she'd of drawn too.
June 24th, 2010 12:16 AM
Glad to hear that it all worked out.
I agree with everyone that it is a bad idea, and in some places illegal, to tell anyone that you are armed unless needed as a last resort. Doing so in an attempt to scare someone off can get her a first hand view of how the police respond to a man (woman) with a gun call.
One idea is for your wife train herself to put her hand on the gun while it in her purse when confronted. Just be sure that her purse is designed for this, or the gun is carried in such a way, such as in a holster, that it is safe to do so. That way, if the purse is snatched, she will still have possesion of the gun.
A can of pepper spray carried in the weak hand can also give a few seconds to get away or prepare for further attack.
Hope this helps.
Remember: When it comes to pulling the trigger, it is ALWAYS the perspective of others which determine if you are a hero, or a criminal.
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June 24th, 2010 12:20 AM
I have a big complaint of people carrying off - body... so I won't comment on that part.
Situational Awareness : and telling the guy to "back off" and "don't come near me" way before he ever even got near her, let alone that close.
Once he had, a cane to the groin should help him understand .... or across his head. A perfect weapon in this case and that close.
It was "assault" the minute he touched her , let alone her purse. He was making a demand for money, which is an attempted robbery ... he didn't ask, he demanded. Then when he was told "NO", he attempted to get control of the purse. NO crime ? Baloney.
Never tell anyone you have a gun, they will know it if it gets the point you need to pull it ..... then they'll understand you have a gun.
Why weren't the Walmart employees interceding... because they would be fired if they did... it's against Walmart policies. Don't shop at Walmart unless you have to.
June 24th, 2010 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by Eagleks
The 2009 Florida Statutes
CRIMES Chapter 784
ASSAULT; BATTERY; CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE View Entire Chapter
(1) An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
The 2009 Florida Statutes
CRIMES Chapter 812
THEFT, ROBBERY, AND RELATED CRIMES View Entire Chapter
(1) "Robbery" means the taking of money or other property which may be the subject of larceny from the person or custody of another, with intent to either permanently or temporarily deprive the person or the owner of the money or other property, when in the course of the taking there is the use of force, violence, assault, or putting in fear.
Good luck trying to sell that to a watch sgt.
June 24th, 2010 01:57 AM
You know...aside from your wife needing to carry on her person (vs purse) and telling the guy there is a gun in the purse...your wife was very lucky...and the Wal-Mart manager needs a kick to the head.
Originally Posted by beaker
IRT self-defense: I think your wife should have screamed for help...to start out with.
IRT the cop: I think you've already explained you wife can't run, so in the event of an attempted mugging, her only recourse is to defend herself.
IRT the manager: Leaving out the gun part, I would contact the press and basically have him shamed on camera--"Does Wal-Mart have a policy of not calling the police when crimes are committed on it's property?" I would start a ____storm with corporate on this and explain how this manager (by name) told your wife she shouldn't call the cops. Hopefully he would lose his job over this...
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June 24th, 2010 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by Guantes
It sounds to me like your wife, and perhaps you as well need a few more tools in your Tool Box.
Pepper Spray, Cane and Stick Fighting, Knife Techniques and even Weapon Retention and Disarmament. Those are just some of the tools that should be in any gun packer's Tool Box.
You don't have to know every technique, but one or two from each discipline would go far in providing you more options over just having a gun. I can assure that the MP, (mental patient), would not have known I had a gun, but would not have liked my response, be it physical or verbal judo.
Don't be a one tool wonder. Fill your Tool Box with a variety of tools. While physical limitation may preclude the use of certain tools, it opens up avenues for others.
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