TN Deputy shot in an unfortunate event.

This is a discussion on TN Deputy shot in an unfortunate event. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I saw this on my local news this morning and thought I'd share it on here and get some opinions. I am anxiously awaiting the ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 41

Thread: TN Deputy shot in an unfortunate event.

  1. #1
    Member Array Augrunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    AL.
    Posts
    168

    TN Deputy shot in an unfortunate event.

    I saw this on my local news this morning and thought I'd share it on here and get some opinions. I am anxiously awaiting the full details after the investigation. Despite it all, my prayers are with Mike Claiborne's family.
    Tennessee Deputy's Death Investigated - WHNT
    ARMY INFANTRY 11c

    What use is an unloaded gun? --Tony Soprano

    "A ___ is better than the ___ you left at/ in the ____" -- My answer to 99% of the ?'s on here

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array Dakota97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    363
    This is terribly unfortunate. We don't know the whole story but if the article has the facts straight, the homeowner is, and should be, in serious trouble. While the deputy may have made a bad choice by being on the property so late at night, the home owner should not have just started shooting. The property owner should have called the police and not taken action unless there was a known threat to him/her or their family. Again my comments are based on what was reported in the article and that may or may not be the complete story.
    NRA life member.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Hickory, NC
    Posts
    2,739
    OK, not siding with the homeowner, that was just stupid. Call the cops unless they are coming through the door. But I have a problem with this, and I work odd hours.


    "People that work odd hours, sometimes when they're off, they'd do what you or I would do at 1:00 in the day at 1:00 in the morning, just because of their schedule," explained Guess. "So that doesn't necessarily set off an alarm or a red flag for anybody because that's just a different schedule you operate on."

    Regardless of what my schedule is, I'm not walking around an unoccupied home in the middle of the night. Why did he think he could? I have my opinions, but I'll keep them to myself. This is the kind of thing that can happen when 2 unthinking people collide. Terrible.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Jefferson City, MO
    Posts
    914
    Bad situation. I'd like to know the whole story.
    NRA Life Member

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,177
    If you work days you get off around 3 or 4 pm,swings go to work around 3 or 4 pm,graveyard go to work around 11pm or 12 am,off at 7 or 8 am,there is no reason why this deputy needed to be walking around that house at 1 am.I'm thinking homeowner sees 4 people at 1 am on property that is usually unoccupied and he's thinking burglars,granted he should have used discretion before just shooting,but we don't know the whole story
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    N/E Florida
    Posts
    3,273
    Wow, Like duck Said Don't Know whole story. SAD
    H/D
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  8. #7
    Member Array Augrunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    AL.
    Posts
    168
    I also hope to hear the whole story soon. Its a terrible situation. Here's a tid-bit of an update discussing legalities. Franklin County Deputy Shot, Killed - Local News - Nashville, TN - News - msnbc.com I will try to stay on top of this and share what info
    I see on my local news.
    ARMY INFANTRY 11c

    What use is an unloaded gun? --Tony Soprano

    "A ___ is better than the ___ you left at/ in the ____" -- My answer to 99% of the ?'s on here

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array KiltedTexan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    AGGIELAND
    Posts
    664
    Which way deputy was facing makes for an interesting point... perhaps pivotal.
    XD Service .45 ACP
    XDM .45 ACP Bi-Tone
    Ruger LCR .38 Special +P CT
    Texas CHL
    NRA Member

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,177
    I know when I was house hunting"during daylight"I would look around,peer in windows of unoccupied houses and sometimes try the door to see if it was locked so maybe we could look inside
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I know when I was house hunting"during daylight"I would look around,peer in windows of unoccupied houses and sometimes try the door to see if it was locked so maybe we could look inside
    No way would I _ever_ do something like that, nor suggest same to anyone else.
    And I've bought and sold 6 properties over the past 15 yrs. having looked at literally at least a hundred across 3 states and DC.

    Do not do this.

    That is a very easy way to be mistaken at any time of the day as being a prowler, burglar, drug addict/dealer (looking for a safe/cook house) and at a minimum it is trespass.

    Never look at a persons property without prior appointment and notification of intent, to which then the property owner can grant approval.

    You can get away with this when looking at used cars and even to some degree commercial property.
    But doing so with residential property is a risk.

    As for this case, the deputy AND the other two people with him were all wrong, and being idiots.
    They were trespassing and doing so in the middle of the night. His own personal work, waking & sleeping schedule has no bearing on this fact. As well to use the excuse that for him it was his normal to be up doing business in the middle of the night doe not at all trump the fact that he was not invited onto the property (even if this had been day he still was trespassing!) AND he was by fact of being on the grounds at night would to any reasonable person be considered immediately to be a potential threat with intent to steal or harm. That would be a normal persons base line thinking at that hour under these conditions and location.
    Further, he was an active law enforcement officer! If anybody should have known better it would be him!

    Why did his two companions go along with this and not use their own brain to say hey this is probably a stupid idea AND the homeowner if not a neighbor might see us and think we are _PROWLERS_.

    Do not do this people.

    If I were on the jury I would taking into account everything find this man not guilty of manslaughter.
    Further I'd see the two companions as being guilty of trespass (a crime) which lead to the killing of another, and thus by that they would to my view be eligible for the felony murder rule....If any of the persons including the deceased were in any way armed either on their person or as in their vehicle (gun, knife, OC, taser, baton etc.).

    Felony because the crime here was not just regular trespass but higher degree aggravated criminal trespass....And if any of the persons were armed then it would be to my view aggravated assault.
    All of which the deceased again being an active LEO should well have known to be applicable.

    This would not be a popular view simply because the deceased was a LEO, but in my world crime is crime and LEOs off duty who happen to work odd hours do not get a pass nor professional courtesy.

    The state law of TN agrees...
    “An Overview of Criminal Offenses under Tennessee Law”

    John M. Scheb II
    Department of Political Science
    University of Tennessee, Knoxville

    Offenses against Property

    Trespass offenses. In Tennessee, a person commits criminal trespass “who, knowing the person does not have the owner’s effective consent to do so, enters or remains on property, or a portion thereof.” T.C.A. 39-14-405.
    That person commits aggravated criminal trespass if he or she “intends, knows, or is reckless about whether such person’s presence will cause fear for the safety of another.” T.C.A. 39-14-406.
    “Any person who drives, parks, stands, or otherwise operates a motor vehicle on, through or within a parking area, driving area or roadway located on privately owned property which is provided for use by patrons, customers or employees of business establishments upon such property, or adjoining property or for use otherwise in connection with activities conducted upon such property, or adjoining property, after such person has been requested or ordered to leave the property or to cease doing any of the foregoing actions” is guilty of the offense of trespass by motor vehicle. T.C.A. 39-14-407.

    Source- The Tennessee Court System
    Home > Property Offenses > Criminal trespass
    Posted On: January 5, 2007 by Baker Associates
    Criminal trespass

    According to Tennessee law, any person who unlawfully enters the property of another may be guilty of trespassing. The penalties for this offense vary depending on whether the trespass was civil or criminal. If the accused person uses force to enter the property and has knowledge that the owner has not consented to the entry, the trespass is criminal. If the property is entered without force the trespass is civil. Any person who commits a civil trespass may be sued for monetary damages, but they will not face criminal charges. Criminal trespassing, however, may result in criminal charges against the offender.

    How do you know when you don’t have the owner’s effective consent? Tennessee statutes list a variety of ways that knowledge of the owner’s consent may be given or implied. A communication from the owner can give knowledge of the owner’s consent or lack of consent. A fence or enclosure around the property can convey the owner’s lack of effective consent. Any obviously visible sign can also convey the owner’s lack of effective consent. Tenn. Code Ann. 39-14-405 (2006). Additionally, an owner can convey his lack of consent by posting signs approved by the wildlife resources agency that state “Hunting by Written Permission Only”. These signs must also show the name of the owner and be accompanied by florescent visual markings around the perimeter of the property. Tenn. Code Ann. 70-4-106 (2006).

    Criminal trespass is a Class C Misdemeanor and can be punished by a fine or a sentence of up to 30 days in jail. Tenn. Code Ann. 40-35-111 (2006).

    Source - Criminal trespass :: Tennessee Criminal Lawyer Blog
    The states definition of 'Aggravated Criminal Trespass' applys to this case; T.P.I. -- CRIM. 14.06

    Do not do stuff like this as it's very stupid and a good way to get yourself jammed up, just like this.

    - Joe Horn

    P.S. - I too have worked off hour and late hour shifts.
    That is no excuse at all to go walking around the world acting like it's 'day time' simply because your own sense of normal supports as much.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,169
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I know when I was house hunting"during daylight"I would look around,peer in windows of unoccupied houses and sometimes try the door to see if it was locked so maybe we could look inside
    You did WHAT?

    Sheesh...

    Oh wait, "during daylight"... that's okay then.....


    NOT.

    If I found you doing this around my "unoccupied house" you'd be held at gunpoint until the cops came... and "no crying about it, either."

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wyoming, DE
    Posts
    10,963
    Sad incident for all involved! This was a bad decision by the LEO, and a bad decision by the home owner. If LEO had called and made an appointment to see the house, owner would have been happy to show it to him.
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
    dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    I know when I was house hunting"during daylight"I would look around,peer in windows of unoccupied houses and sometimes try the door to see if it was locked so maybe we could look inside
    bad idea...you know some people break into unoccupied homes to steal toilets, fridges, stoves etc...people are crazy, even if your intentions are pure, someone may call the cops on you
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    no matter what happens legally this guy will have to live with the fact that he killed a person for looking at his home :(..... (assuming this is what really happened, all innocent till proven guilty)
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  16. #15
    Member Array bsms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    235
    Ref unoccupied properties - I've had realtors tell me to go ahead and look around before setting up an appointment. Maybe that is because we were looking for horse property and could frequently take a place of the list in a couple minutes - and because we have a lot of abandoned houses around where I am at.

    But looking around at midnight? YGBSM!

    Shooting someone in the backyard? Not me, and this is why. I don't want to shoot a neighbor (or neighbor's relative) who gets drunk and lost, etc. A couple of years ago a neighbor's kid ran thru the back yard just outside the fence - drunk and stupid, but not deserving death.

    I'll keep a rifle handy while telling them to beat it & that I've called the cops...but no, I don't want to shoot someone for being in my yard. Of course, I don't live in a high crime neighborhood, either.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. BAD: Deputy shot - Greeley CO
    By Sticks in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: November 26th, 2010, 07:35 AM
  2. Pinal deputy shot
    By threefeathers in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 1st, 2010, 01:17 AM
  3. Pinal deputy shot
    By threefeathers in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 1st, 2010, 12:33 AM
  4. Former Cabell Co. WV Deputy Shot in Colorado
    By JoJoGunn in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: November 22nd, 2009, 02:03 AM
  5. Undercover deputy shot
    By miklcolt45 in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: August 16th, 2007, 08:13 AM

Search tags for this page

39-14-405+personal property
,
deputy claiborne shot in belvidere tn
,
larry white belvidere, tn
,
larry white shooting tennessee mike claiborne
,
larry white tennessee kills deputy
,

larry white tennessee shooting

,
larry white tennessee shoots cop
,
larry white tn grand jury
,

larry white tn shooting

,
tenn deputy wife killed kel tec
,
tn 70-4-106 penalty
,
trespass case law tennessee 39-14-407
Click on a term to search for related topics.