Home invasion or real LEO's?

This is a discussion on Home invasion or real LEO's? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; With home invasion on the rise, and the methods becoming more refined, what if the BGs were impersonating LEOs? Though more commonly associated with traffic ...

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Thread: Home invasion or real LEO's?

  1. #1
    Member Array homersimpson's Avatar
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    Home invasion or real LEO's?

    With home invasion on the rise, and the methods becoming more refined, what if the BGs were impersonating LEOs? Though more commonly associated with traffic stops, it wouldn't be the first time.

    On rare occasion, LEOs serving warrants have been given wrong/old addresses, wrong names, etc. by mistake; resulting in the wrong persons house being entered. Now think about the supreme courts decision to allow no knock entry to serve felony warrants. See where I'm going yet?

    I would hate to shoot someone because of a mistake. I would also hate to be the victim of a clever home invasion. To me this seems like a no win situation, but I'd like to hear what others think.

    -BTW, assume for whatever reason you are unable to see whether or not there are LE vehicles outside of your house, and there is no duty to retreat inside your house.
    Two of my favorite responses:
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    "For the same reason I always wear my seatbelt."

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  3. #2
    Member Array distortion9's Avatar
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    Great question.

    I can't believe you posted this...I was just thinking about bringing this up. This is one of my biggest fears and is something that happens quite often here in NY. Police shields, jackets, radios...the whole 9. I've even heard of them keeping the act up the whole time they are in your home, not just to get in.

    I'm clueless on what I would do. My only hope would be if the dog gave me a big enough "heads up" so that I could keep them out until I confirm with 911?....Dunno.

    Really looking forward to hearing other replies.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    supreme courts decision to allow no knock entry to serve felony warrants
    Its obvious to me you are getting this from the moonbats of the mainstream media howling at the moon since SCOUS has rendered no such decision that I am aware of LOL

    SCOUS did recently decide a case dealing with the admissibility of evidence where not only did the police knock but they announced , and then proceeded though the unlocked door by opening it within 4 to 5 seconds . SCOUS decided that IN THIS CASE the discovery of the evidence was inevitable so it would not be thrown out as " fruit of the poisonous tree" ( guns and dope iirc ) Point is that all the SCOUS did is REFUSE to set an arbitrary standard wait before entry .. Officers are not obliged to wait 5 minutes , or whatever before entering to serve the warrant , Nothing imho has changed from this decision.

    As for What to do , Well why dont you do what is recomended anyway .
    1. Gather the family in the safe room
    2. Call 911
    3. If you hear a lot of screams of "POLICE" " WARRANT " Announce back that you are armed ( good advise while on the phone to 911 no matter if its a swat team or a scrote team .
    4. Play it by ear from there .. 911 will know or will find out if its there is a legit warrant service at your address or even in the neighborhood . Any LE team uppon hearing "I have a gun AND my family back here" will immediatly go from warrant service to containment of a possible hostage situation .

    so you see its not a big thing , just do things like your supposed to and either way the truth will out fast enough .

    edited to add
    Here is the actual caselaw without moonbat hyperbole for thoes who want to bother to get the facts .

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...&invol=04-1360
    Last edited by Redneck Repairs; June 17th, 2006 at 06:00 PM. Reason: added caselaw link
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Member Array homersimpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs
    Its obvious to me you are getting this from the moonbats of the mainstream media howling at the moon since SCOUS has rendered no such decision that I am aware of LOL...
    What! you mean the media was misleading!
    Two of my favorite responses:
    "What is it about gun control laws that makes you feel safe?"
    "For the same reason I always wear my seatbelt."

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    Excellent post, RR. Thanks for clearing this up with your legal due diligence and analysis. You must have a touch of attorney blood in your veins...........

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    nah R&G just about 10 years of being in a position to supervise both investigators and warrant service . You do pick up a little when you write your own warrant apps , affidavits , ect..
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Redneck, Who is it that will reccommend to us to gather the family up and run to the(a) "safe room" ??

    We might be on the same "page" but when my door comes bustin in unannounced I will consider it a BG not my country trying to help me or ready to say,"oops my mistake" after they have shot up my house. If the LEO's are serving a warrent on me(the GG) and they breach my door in the middle of the night unannounced.......sorry to say it but.........they ARE the BG's.

    My country owes me better than this. --------

  9. #8
    Member Array distortion9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs

    As for What to do , Well why dont you do what is recomended anyway .
    1. Gather the family in the safe room
    2. Call 911
    3. If you hear a lot of screams of "POLICE" " WARRANT " Announce back that you are armed ( good advise while on the phone to 911 no matter if its a swat team or a scrote team .
    4. Play it by ear from there .. 911 will know or will find out if its there is a legit warrant service at your address or even in the neighborhood . Any LE team uppon hearing "I have a gun AND my family back here" will immediatly go from warrant service to containment of a possible hostage situation .

    so you see its not a big thing , just do things like your supposed to and either way the truth will out fast enough .
    The only problem I see with this is time and the assumption that they are in fact good guys. I've never had my home breached by a SWAT team but, I have seen them to it on TV. I can't recall them giving too much notice of their arrival or entrance.

    I see a scenerio like this playing out VERY quickly. Assuming there is no "heads up"....it's, "POLICE..SEARCH WARRANT!!!!" and your door is coming in. They're in before your butt cheeks clear the sofa. If my phone happened to be closer than my gun, I doubt I'd even be able to punch those 3 digits before a decision had to be made....good guys or bad guys?

    My house has 3 bedrooms and 1 bath. A motivated person could be in any room, from the front door, in under 20 seconds. That's not even close to the amount of time needed to place a confirmation call to 911.

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    RSSZ I wont debate the legitamicy of no knock warrents , and if you feel that strongly about it i sencerely wish you good luck and pray that you never face the situation mistaken service or not because in all likely hood you are going to come out in second place with a trained entry team. You note that i am not reccomending anything that endangers the homeowner or family . IMHO its due dilligance to see to my family's safety first off ( the same as seek cover in the open ) and address the threat as needed . Anyway I have had my say on the matter and will try and leave it to discussion among others LOL
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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    When the Flash Bang Grenades come crashing through your windows & you're sitting there with your pistol in your hand but, are totally stunned and cannot see or hear anything...and then 3 seconds later...your face in in your carpet & there is an M16 pointed at your head...you'll know they were real LEOs.

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    RR has pretty much summoned up the proper way to react in such a situation, IMHO. If it really is the police, they will pretty much do what he has said. If they're not, they will proabbly decide to take what they can from the rest of your house and get the heck out. If you choose to start shooting, and it is the police, you will probably go down hard. I'll put RIP in your title if it ever happens.....
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    Dallas SWAT, when taking out BG's (TV never lies, ya know), just rip the doors off with chains and an assault vehicle. Windows too.

  14. #13
    Member Array Brian45's Avatar
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    About 15+ years ago there was a incident that happened in my area. Middle of the night LE and a swat team bust into the home of a retired couple. They wake up to the Swat entry and a struggle happens when they entered the bedroom. The couple end up pretty beat up and one of the LE officers gets his wrist broken by the old man.

    Here is the background. The homeowners on several occasions reported the neighbors for noise and drugs. Local LE knew about the problem. Well in retallation the scumbag neighbor reports the couple for dealing drugs. Then the drug task force took action.

    I guess it is true that no good deed goes unpunished.

    This incident did make the local news for a very short time then simply went away. Only years later did I hear from a source I trust that there was a settlement and part of the agreement was that the victims would not give any info to the public or media about the incident.

    Now many members here keep a firearm close at hand when home and/or sleeping. Put yourself in that situation, what is going to happen with a gun in your hand even if you realize they are LE and lower you gun? It is a very scary thought, even if very unlikely.
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    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    I recall a bit that was in the news about 20 years ago. (pardon my poor memory of it) SOme guy was sitting in his living room when police broke down the door and entered his home. They DID NOT identify themselves. The man reached for a weapon, and was killed.

    It seems that some desk jockey screwed up and sent the police to an address that was a few years out of date. The whole thing was a mess.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Well stated RR :)))
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

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