Actually happened... would you have complied...?

This is a discussion on Actually happened... would you have complied...? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by RebelRabbi Give up the property, protect your life. If they want $$$ they will take it and leave. If they want YOU ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 39

Thread: Actually happened... would you have complied...?

  1. #16
    Member Array cbigclarke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    dirty jerez
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelRabbi View Post
    Give up the property, protect your life. If they want $$$ they will take it and leave. If they want YOU they will try to force you into the vehicle. When you face being abducted, then is the time to FIGHT but not just for property.
    we all hope they would take te money and run. but history tells us that some like to shoot..."just because"
    jersey no more.. im a texan now

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    New Member Array 68Mustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    13
    There were two victims so let's assume it's me and my wife. The BGs drove up in a darkened SUV so you don't know how many assailants are robbing you nor whether one of the geniuses brought their child along for the ride and I, personally, couldn't live with myself having blindly shot into the cab and hit a child. Secondly, this is an ambush that it looks like I lost since they got their gun on me before I was even aware of their presence so, personally, I'd give up the goods so as to not provoke them into shooting me and/or my wife. I would NOT comply to get IN the vehicle though, that's a different scenario altogether. Also, keep in mind that the SUV didn't necessarily belong to the BG so the guy(s) in the back seat would have no problem shooting at you through the darkened windows. Just my take on it.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    englewood, fl
    Posts
    1,751
    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    If I am by myself, the first thought is "how can I gain the upper hand or at least equalize my position?" If I felt I could "GetOffTheX" and achieve tactical superiority, then that would be my move. If, however, that was questionable, then perhaps "backing away from their vehicle, while telling them you can have my wallet, and reaching for my wallet, tossing on the ground several feet away from their vehicle, and if they want it bad enough at that point to have one of them get out, then as they focus on my wallet, I am moving, drawing and firing. IF my family or any member of my family is with me, then that in itself presents a whole new ballgame. At that point I would have to see how things are going to play out as there are tooooo many variables. JMO
    i'm going to go somewhere that might not make you happy with this and tell you how i would react to a victim i was robbing throwing his wallet on the ground....i have already indicated to you that i am armed and the intent is to shoot you if you dont comply...

    you have just pissed me off with a smartass move and might as well have told me to go to he11...your wallet will not get any of my attention...you will get it all...your choice would be to pick it up yourself and try again...after which i probably would shoot you...or i may just shoot you because you didnt comply and either drive off or get out of the vehicle and pick up the wallet now that you have been neutralized...

    i honestly dont see the wallet on the ground trick as a distraction...i see it as a trigger to bad things....i get a kick out of people thinking that the bad guy will bend over and pick up a wallet thrown on the ground...they are holding you at gunpoint...in their world you comply or they shoot...thats what the gun is for...now throw in a smartass move like throwing the wallet on the ground and ask yourself how badly you want to piss the guy with gun off...

    you drop it on the ground and in my world youre going to pick it up...and probably end up shot either while youre doing that or right after...

    we're talking about cold people who have an indifference to human life other than their own and have little respect for themselves in the bigger picture...what is reason to you is a street mistake to them that calls for a violent reaction...they dont take kindly to people farting around with them...they have an agenda...and as stupid as you think they are they trump it with unpredictabilty and aggression...

    if someone is poiinting a gun at you expect to get shot..and react accordingly...fight if you feel you must...but dont tempt them to shoot you...their answer may surprise you...

  5. #19
    Member Array TXcougar8000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Spring, TX
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Muggers walk up on unsuspecting victims, demand money at gun/knifepoint, then when the victims completely comply and give up the cash/valuables, they get stuck or shot anyway. It's not always take it and leave vs abduction. Some people are just animals.
    My thoughts exactly. JMO, but if they are stupid/lazy enough to try and mug me from a car window, their gangster mobile will soon become their hearse. I would move to a position outside of their line of fire (cover, concealment, window post, etc...) and perforate accordingly.
    "Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty"
    -Wendell Phillips

    Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap nor easy conquest.
    -The Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775

  6. #20
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,420
    This scenario is why I carry two guns.

    I'd prefer to shoot them with my primary, which is most likely a G30. Nice, big holes.

    However, my primary is also likely tucked in and I'm not going to play tug-o-war with my shirt while a goblin already has the drop on me.

    Also, in my pocket, looking just like a wallet is an LCP in a wallet holster. I will appear to comply, get off the x, and empty the LCP in their direction very quickly. I will also assume that 7 rounds of .380 may not have completed the mission, but it would have provided cover fire for the G30 to get on deck.

    I believe that over-whelming violence is the safest response.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    While each person must make a decision of how at risk they are and act accordingly, I believe there are some things to consider.

    Options: IF you initially comply and get bad vibes, the chances are good that you can stll take action and be no worse off than if you had acted initially. If you act immediately, you are stuck with it, no options.

    I have both discuss and experimented FoF, the movement concept with some of the premier names in movement and point shooting. The general consensus is that movement without the initiative, distraction or other edge, is considerably less beneficial than with one or more of those factors. Add the fact that your forward movement, often the most advantageous direction, options are void and the situation becomes even worse. If you consider it your only option, then you must act accordingly.

    Try this in FoF. At a distance of a few feet (where combatives are not an option), have the aggressor (standing or seated) with his weapon pointed at you and your's concealed. Try to move and/or draw, without the benefit of a distraction or other edge, and see how well it works out for you. From the experiments I have participated in, I do not think it will work out well.

    IF, by some means you can gain an edge, your odds will improve dramatically.

  8. #22
    Member Array HiFreq47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Hartsdale, NY
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i'm going to go somewhere that might not make you happy with this and tell you how i would react to a victim i was robbing throwing his wallet on the ground....i have already indicated to you that i am armed and the intent is to shoot you if you dont comply...

    you have just pissed me off with a smartass move and might as well have told me to go to he11...your wallet will not get any of my attention...you will get it all...your choice would be to pick it up yourself and try again...after which i probably would shoot you...or i may just shoot you because you didnt comply and either drive off or get out of the vehicle and pick up the wallet now that you have been neutralized...

    i honestly dont see the wallet on the ground trick as a distraction...i see it as a trigger to bad things....i get a kick out of people thinking that the bad guy will bend over and pick up a wallet thrown on the ground...they are holding you at gunpoint...in their world you comply or they shoot...thats what the gun is for...now throw in a smartass move like throwing the wallet on the ground and ask yourself how badly you want to piss the guy with gun off...

    you drop it on the ground and in my world youre going to pick it up...and probably end up shot either while youre doing that or right after...

    we're talking about cold people who have an indifference to human life other than their own and have little respect for themselves in the bigger picture...what is reason to you is a street mistake to them that calls for a violent reaction...they dont take kindly to people farting around with them...they have an agenda...and as stupid as you think they are they trump it with unpredictabilty and aggression...

    if someone is poiinting a gun at you expect to get shot..and react accordingly...fight if you feel you must...but dont tempt them to shoot you...their answer may surprise you...
    To your point - big story around these parts a couple of years back. A group of friends out in Manhattan in Soho were held at gunpoint by a couple of thugs (including 1 girl). One of the guys didn't immediately comply and they smacked him in the face with the pistol which knocked him down on the ground. His girlfriend said something like, "What are you going to do? Shoot us?" with a bit of an attitude and the thug put one into her heart killing her instantly. They caught the scum a few days later, but that was an excellent example of how ******* off someone with a gun isn't always the brightest idea in the book.
    Billy
    Fusion Tact-5 in a Pure Kustom Black-Ops Pro
    Glock 23 in a Barber Leatherworks IWB

  9. #23
    Member Array HiFreq47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Hartsdale, NY
    Posts
    226
    Billy
    Fusion Tact-5 in a Pure Kustom Black-Ops Pro
    Glock 23 in a Barber Leatherworks IWB

  10. #24
    jfl
    jfl is offline
    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Palm Beach County, FL
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    This is not always the case. Happens in the District of Crime all the time. Muggers walk up on unsuspecting victims, demand money at gun/knifepoint, then when the victims completely comply and give up the cash/valuables, they get stuck or shot anyway. It's not always take it and leave vs abduction. Some people are just animals.

    NEVER EVER EVER expect the BG to just walk(or in this case drive) away like they claim just because you give them what they demand.

    Make no mistake... The moment a gun is pulled on you, you ARE FIGHTING FOR YOUR LIFE. You're not fighting for property once someone pulls a weapon on you. .........
    ............
    ]
    Very true !

    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i'm going to go somewhere that might not make you happy with this and tell you how i would react to a victim i was robbing throwing his wallet on the ground....i have already indicated to you that i am armed and the intent is to shoot you if you dont comply...

    you have just pissed me off with a smartass move and might as well have told me to go to he11...your wallet will not get any of my attention...you will get it all...your choice would be to pick it up yourself and try again...after which i probably would shoot you...or i may just shoot you because you didnt comply and either drive off or get out of the vehicle and pick up the wallet now that you have been neutralized...

    i honestly dont see the wallet on the ground trick as a distraction...i see it as a trigger to bad things....i get a kick out of people thinking that the bad guy will bend over and pick up a wallet thrown on the ground...they are holding you at gunpoint...in their world you comply or they shoot...thats what the gun is for...now throw in a smartass move like throwing the wallet on the ground and ask yourself how badly you want to piss the guy with gun off...

    you drop it on the ground and in my world youre going to pick it up...and probably end up shot either while youre doing that or right after...

    we're talking about cold people who have an indifference to human life other than their own and have little respect for themselves in the bigger picture...what is reason to you is a street mistake to them that calls for a violent reaction...they dont take kindly to people farting around with them...they have an agenda...and as stupid as you think they are they trump it with unpredictabilty and aggression...

    if someone is poiinting a gun at you expect to get shot..and react accordingly...fight if you feel you must...but dont tempt them to shoot you...their answer may surprise you...
    Around here there is more and more gang shootings and "gang initiation" killings.

    Like packinnova and bladenbullet wrote, if some thug is pointing a gun at you, you better believe he might shoot you; you have a slight element of surprise in the sense that the BG does not expect you to resist; right now he is expecting you to cower and give your money; the"firing sequence" is not yet loaded in his brain ... maybe.
    However, for me, I'd rather take a bullet fighting, then surrender and possibly take a bullet anyway, from closer range and easier shot.
    Most bad guys are poor shots, more so at moving targets.
    Also, most BGs want the money, not a fight !
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    552
    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    This is not always the case. Happens in the District of Crime all the time. Muggers walk up on unsuspecting victims, demand money at gun/knifepoint, then when the victims completely comply and give up the cash/valuables, they get stuck or shot anyway. It's not always take it and leave vs abduction. Some people are just animals.

    NEVER EVER EVER expect the BG to just walk(or in this case drive) away like they claim just because you give them what they demand.

    Make no mistake... The moment a gun is pulled on you, you ARE FIGHTING FOR YOUR LIFE. You're not fighting for property once someone pulls a weapon on you.

    Edit (added some examples from everywhere):
    Liquor Store Owner Fatally Shot During Robbery in NW|ABC 7 News
    toledoblade.com -- The Blade ~ Toledo Ohio
    Maintenance worker who gave up wallet, car keys is shot anyway
    Pair charged in Saturday's robbery in St. Petersburg

    Here's a recent one in rural VA of all places...
    WUSA9.com | Washington, DC | Teen Charged In Culpeper Va. Grocery Shooting
    I'd have to agree with this one. There are far too many cases of people being shot/stabbed/etc. after complying (at least in Florida) to think just because you complied that they'll let you go. Sometimes it has absolutely nothing to do with the property and the BG is just making his way to causing harm. Naturally, it depends on the circumstances, but chances are I'm fighting.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    One of the greatest advantages of posted scenarios and actual occurrences is the variety of situations therein. This provides examples to use for training and experimentation of techniques that may be of value, beyond merely "move and shoot".

  13. #27
    Member Array Nikolai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Connecticut/Virginia
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    This scenario is why I carry two guns.

    I'd prefer to shoot them with my primary, which is most likely a G30. Nice, big holes.

    However, my primary is also likely tucked in and I'm not going to play tug-o-war with my shirt while a goblin already has the drop on me.

    Also, in my pocket, looking just like a wallet is an LCP in a wallet holster. I will appear to comply, get off the x, and empty the LCP in their direction very quickly. I will also assume that 7 rounds of .380 may not have completed the mission, but it would have provided cover fire for the G30 to get on deck.

    I believe that over-whelming violence is the safest response.
    So far, I like this one the best. I really need to get off my duff and start packing a true pocket pistol.

    I agree that movement in and of itself isn't going to help. A strong element of surprise is needed, because I am not convinced that there are a lot of good distractions, aside from providing a dummy wallet, while drawing a pocket pistol or something along those lines.

    This is an interesting scenario. I will definitely be training for this one with my father when I see him this weekend.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florence, SC
    Posts
    7,967
    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i'm going to go somewhere that might not make you happy with this and tell you how i would react to a victim i was robbing throwing his wallet on the ground....i have already indicated to you that i am armed and the intent is to shoot you if you dont comply...

    you have just pissed me off with a smartass move and might as well have told me to go to he11...your wallet will not get any of my attention...you will get it all...your choice would be to pick it up yourself and try again...after which i probably would shoot you...or i may just shoot you because you didnt comply and either drive off or get out of the vehicle and pick up the wallet now that you have been neutralized...

    i honestly dont see the wallet on the ground trick as a distraction...i see it as a trigger to bad things....i get a kick out of people thinking that the bad guy will bend over and pick up a wallet thrown on the ground...they are holding you at gunpoint...in their world you comply or they shoot...thats what the gun is for...now throw in a smartass move like throwing the wallet on the ground and ask yourself how badly you want to piss the guy with gun off...

    you drop it on the ground and in my world youre going to pick it up...and probably end up shot either while youre doing that or right after...

    we're talking about cold people who have an indifference to human life other than their own and have little respect for themselves in the bigger picture...what is reason to you is a street mistake to them that calls for a violent reaction...they dont take kindly to people farting around with them...they have an agenda...and as stupid as you think they are they trump it with unpredictabilty and aggression...

    if someone is poiinting a gun at you expect to get shot..and react accordingly...fight if you feel you must...but dont tempt them to shoot you...their answer may surprise you...
    Actually...you didn't upset me at all. If you will notice...my initial response to the scenario was identical to your first post. As others have already said, these scenarios are posted to present possibilities, think the situation out, and learn from all the comments and reactions. I do not claim an "all knowing" response to ANY of these scenarios. I have an OPEN MIND which is of paramount importance IF you are willing to learn! As for the distraction option of throwing the wallet to the ground...I'm already in deep stuff, therefore am STILL prepared to and will GET OFF THE X and fight, whether the distraction works or not. But thanks for your input on my reply. It was quite interesting having you put yourself in the BG's shoes and explain to me how the BG would react. Obviously you MUST be speaking and explaining based on your advanced research and experience in said circumstances. Thank you for your enlightenment into the mind of a street criminal. I do apologize for my naivete... Again...JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  15. #29
    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    394
    Nobody has mentioned this yet but there are some very good precautions one can take to minimize your losses in a situation like this.

    For starters, I never carry more than $20 cash. My wallet contains my drivers license (of which I have a spare at home), debit card, credit card, and 2-3 other useless cards. The debit card is linked to a small "buffer" account and the real money is in savings.

    The second thing you should do is put the phone number for your bank and credit card in your cell phone. This way, as soon as you are robbed, you can immediately notify them before you even get home (assuming you still have your cell phone).

    With these precautions in place, you stand to lose nothing of value by giving over your wallet. An afternoon of inconvenience, but nothing more than that. Now I'm not saying that you should hand over your wallet to anyone who asks like a good boy, but you can't always safely fight back when they have the upper hand.

    In this situation, I would jump back and dodge away as soon as I saw the sight of that gun. I don't think they should start shooting just because I jumped back as that is an expected reaction, and if they wanted to shoot me for nothing, they already had the chance and didn't take it. I would not draw a gun from behind their vehicle. That's way too sketchy because there are probably several of them in the car all with guns and they could easily jump out and turn it into a horrible situation if I tried to initiate a shootout without cover. I would simply run to find cover, and if I survived long enough to reach cover and they were will following, that's when I would draw and start shooting.
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Dandridge Tennessee
    Posts
    2,058
    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    off the x...draw...ventilate the door and window of the suv...save a couple of rounds for the driver if they decide to participate...if theyre too lazy to get out of the vehicle and become a real threat then they need a little motivational action...
    You will not find a better answer. The key is they think we are all sheep.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Should he have just complied?
    By Barren in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: August 1st, 2010, 05:47 PM
  2. Fort Worth Store Clerk Complied & Still Fatally Shot
    By KimBobTex in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: March 24th, 2010, 05:28 AM
  3. This happened to me...
    By DarylW in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: August 2nd, 2009, 09:39 PM
  4. Whatever Happened To......
    By Captain Crunch in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: August 16th, 2006, 12:18 PM