This is a discussion on Actually happened... would you have complied...? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by RebelRabbi Give up the property, protect your life. If they want $$$ they will take it and leave. If they want YOU ...
There were two victims so let's assume it's me and my wife. The BGs drove up in a darkened SUV so you don't know how many assailants are robbing you nor whether one of the geniuses brought their child along for the ride and I, personally, couldn't live with myself having blindly shot into the cab and hit a child. Secondly, this is an ambush that it looks like I lost since they got their gun on me before I was even aware of their presence so, personally, I'd give up the goods so as to not provoke them into shooting me and/or my wife. I would NOT comply to get IN the vehicle though, that's a different scenario altogether. Also, keep in mind that the SUV didn't necessarily belong to the BG so the guy(s) in the back seat would have no problem shooting at you through the darkened windows. Just my take on it.
you have just pissed me off with a smartass move and might as well have told me to go to he11...your wallet will not get any of my attention...you will get it all...your choice would be to pick it up yourself and try again...after which i probably would shoot you...or i may just shoot you because you didnt comply and either drive off or get out of the vehicle and pick up the wallet now that you have been neutralized...
i honestly dont see the wallet on the ground trick as a distraction...i see it as a trigger to bad things....i get a kick out of people thinking that the bad guy will bend over and pick up a wallet thrown on the ground...they are holding you at gunpoint...in their world you comply or they shoot...thats what the gun is for...now throw in a smartass move like throwing the wallet on the ground and ask yourself how badly you want to piss the guy with gun off...
you drop it on the ground and in my world youre going to pick it up...and probably end up shot either while youre doing that or right after...
we're talking about cold people who have an indifference to human life other than their own and have little respect for themselves in the bigger picture...what is reason to you is a street mistake to them that calls for a violent reaction...they dont take kindly to people farting around with them...they have an agenda...and as stupid as you think they are they trump it with unpredictabilty and aggression...
if someone is poiinting a gun at you expect to get shot..and react accordingly...fight if you feel you must...but dont tempt them to shoot you...their answer may surprise you...
"Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty"
“Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap nor easy conquest.”
-The Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775
This scenario is why I carry two guns.
I'd prefer to shoot them with my primary, which is most likely a G30. Nice, big holes.
However, my primary is also likely tucked in and I'm not going to play tug-o-war with my shirt while a goblin already has the drop on me.
Also, in my pocket, looking just like a wallet is an LCP in a wallet holster. I will appear to comply, get off the x, and empty the LCP in their direction very quickly. I will also assume that 7 rounds of .380 may not have completed the mission, but it would have provided cover fire for the G30 to get on deck.
I believe that over-whelming violence is the safest response.
'Clinging to my guns and religion
While each person must make a decision of how at risk they are and act accordingly, I believe there are some things to consider.
Options: IF you initially comply and get bad vibes, the chances are good that you can stll take action and be no worse off than if you had acted initially. If you act immediately, you are stuck with it, no options.
I have both discuss and experimented FoF, the movement concept with some of the premier names in movement and point shooting. The general consensus is that movement without the initiative, distraction or other edge, is considerably less beneficial than with one or more of those factors. Add the fact that your forward movement, often the most advantageous direction, options are void and the situation becomes even worse. If you consider it your only option, then you must act accordingly.
Try this in FoF. At a distance of a few feet (where combatives are not an option), have the aggressor (standing or seated) with his weapon pointed at you and your's concealed. Try to move and/or draw, without the benefit of a distraction or other edge, and see how well it works out for you. From the experiments I have participated in, I do not think it will work out well.
IF, by some means you can gain an edge, your odds will improve dramatically.
Fusion Tact-5 in a Pure Kustom Black-Ops Pro
Glock 23 in a Barber Leatherworks IWB
Fusion Tact-5 in a Pure Kustom Black-Ops Pro
Glock 23 in a Barber Leatherworks IWB
Like packinnova and bladenbullet wrote, if some thug is pointing a gun at you, you better believe he might shoot you; you have a slight element of surprise in the sense that the BG does not expect you to resist; right now he is expecting you to cower and give your money; the"firing sequence" is not yet loaded in his brain ... maybe.
However, for me, I'd rather take a bullet fighting, then surrender and possibly take a bullet anyway, from closer range and easier shot.
Most bad guys are poor shots, more so at moving targets.
Also, most BGs want the money, not a fight !
The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
The second rule: "Bring enough gun"
jfl (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)
One of the greatest advantages of posted scenarios and actual occurrences is the variety of situations therein. This provides examples to use for training and experimentation of techniques that may be of value, beyond merely "move and shoot".
I agree that movement in and of itself isn't going to help. A strong element of surprise is needed, because I am not convinced that there are a lot of good distractions, aside from providing a dummy wallet, while drawing a pocket pistol or something along those lines.
This is an interesting scenario. I will definitely be training for this one with my father when I see him this weekend.
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
Nobody has mentioned this yet but there are some very good precautions one can take to minimize your losses in a situation like this.
For starters, I never carry more than $20 cash. My wallet contains my drivers license (of which I have a spare at home), debit card, credit card, and 2-3 other useless cards. The debit card is linked to a small "buffer" account and the real money is in savings.
The second thing you should do is put the phone number for your bank and credit card in your cell phone. This way, as soon as you are robbed, you can immediately notify them before you even get home (assuming you still have your cell phone).
With these precautions in place, you stand to lose nothing of value by giving over your wallet. An afternoon of inconvenience, but nothing more than that. Now I'm not saying that you should hand over your wallet to anyone who asks like a good boy, but you can't always safely fight back when they have the upper hand.
In this situation, I would jump back and dodge away as soon as I saw the sight of that gun. I don't think they should start shooting just because I jumped back as that is an expected reaction, and if they wanted to shoot me for nothing, they already had the chance and didn't take it. I would not draw a gun from behind their vehicle. That's way too sketchy because there are probably several of them in the car all with guns and they could easily jump out and turn it into a horrible situation if I tried to initiate a shootout without cover. I would simply run to find cover, and if I survived long enough to reach cover and they were will following, that's when I would draw and start shooting.
"In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK