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Wife has a friend that is a victem of domestic abuse, and she comes to your house.

4K views 53 replies 42 participants last post by  carguy2244 
#1 ·
Okay, let me get your opinions on this scenario. My wife has a friend who has 2 children, 3 and 5. From her accounts she is in a verbally abusive relationship and her husband treats her very poorly in my opinion...again from her accounts.

Tonight our doorbell rings. Armed, with my G30, I look through our peep hole and see this friend of my wife's. I open the door and see that she is very emotionally distraught. I know of her history so I scan the road for her husband and I open the glass door asking if she is okay. She said no, and I have my kids with me, can we come in. So, I yell for my wife, and she comes to the door and assists with getting her and the kids in the house quickly. The door is bolted and locked behind her and she proceeds to tell my wife about her husband yelling at her, using vulgar profanity in front of their children so she got them together and just left.

I asked her if her husband had been physical, and she said no, just verbal. I then asked if he knew where she was, but she said no, but he could narrow it down to just a few homes if needed.

Scenario:

Husband shows up at my house PO'd, demanding to see his wife. I tell my wife to call 911, and he makes effort to enter the house.

My thoughts:
1.) This is my house, and I am protecting my family first and foremost. If he persists in coming in the house, I will stop the threat.

2.) I am concerned in the back of my head as his two kids are in my house, which he has legal right to. Where do his rights end? At my door?

Anyway, I need some opinions as I sit at my house now, being vigilant to the possibility of something like this happening. My wife is listening to her friend, and I sit here, typing this out as fast as I can, and wait, and protect my family.
 
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#30 ·
doors are shut and locked and stay that way.
if he comes pounding on the door, call the cops.
if he actually manages to break into your house- break a window and crawl thru, etc. protect yourself and your family as you see fit.
as said above, the only thing i could see possibly happening is the wife suing you. If it looked like he was about to break in, I would tell the lady that you will defend yourself. and if she doesnt want that, she can go out there and deal with him.
 
#31 ·
As a retired LEO, I have to agree with Hotguns. This guy is a trespasser and his rights end at the sidewalk. As for custody, they both have equal rights to the kids. If he wants sole custody, thats what lawyers are for.
You do need to have her seek out a shelter, because the situation will only get worse and you will be dragged in deeper and deeper.
 
#32 ·
"Okay, let me get your opinions on this scenario. My wife has a friend who has 2 children, 3 and 5. From her accounts she is in a verbally abusive relationship and her husband treats her very poorly in my opinion...again from her accounts."

i dont see a way that this could end up well for you...a verbally abusive relationship to me means no physical violence has occured and i'm pretty sure if you met his aggressiveness with a violent response the first words out of her mouth are going to be "he's never hurt me. you should have let him in."...

this is a situation that requires an intervention by professionals and needs to be out of your hands...being a good friend is one thing...being asked to get between her husband and family is another altogether...it wouldnt be a bad idea to consult legal council for advice...its a hornets nest and your swinging a stick at it...
 
#33 ·
Thanks to all your comments, I have taken them all in, and there is some excellent advise in those posts, as always. As an update to the situation, she decided to return home last night with her kids. He never showed up at our house, but I was very concerned that it could happen. She called my wife when she got home and reported that she was okay, and that they were staying the night in separate rooms.

They are already in marital counseling, and she sees a personal counselor. It is a typical abuse situation where she gets abused and goes right back and lets the cycle continue. Its a mess and I hope she finds a way out, but I doubt that is going to happen.

Again, thanks everyone!
 
#39 ·
Thanks to all your comments, I have taken them all in, and there is some excellent advise in those posts, as always. As an update to the situation, she decided to return home last night with her kids. He never showed up at our house, but I was very concerned that it could happen. She called my wife when she got home and reported that she was okay, and that they were staying the night in separate rooms.

They are already in marital counseling, and she sees a personal counselor. It is a typical abuse situation where she gets abused and goes right back and lets the cycle continue. Its a mess and I hope she finds a way out, but I doubt that is going to happen.

Again, thanks everyone!
In my opinion you and your wife should tell this lady that she has already used her safe harbor at your house. You hope she resolves her problems but she is not to bring them (the problems) to your house again.
 
#35 ·
The advise given here has been very sound.

If it were me, I would encourage my wife to brake off the relationship with this troubled wife.

My personal family, wife and children don't need her problems in our home.
 
#36 ·
I've been verbally and emotionally abused. Had 3 kids with him (long story), and it took 20 years to leave him. If you haven't been there, you can't know how difficult it can be, the dynamics of fear and twisted power, the slow waning of your sanity, your self-respect, your sense of control over your very thoughts. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Congrats to the OP for his decision to offer her shelter.

That said, I believe he should tell the woman that a one-time run to their house for safety was fine, but no more. After that - the woman should run to a shelter -- permanently.
 
#37 ·
DefConGun really lays it out clear and correct. Nothing to add to that except to reiterate the point that shooting someone brings down a world of hurt and there are very few cases where the police will shake your hand, haul away the body and you go on with your business.

More likely, you'll be in the fight of your life getting extricated from it so let's stay far away from the "can I shoot him now? can I kill him now? is it OK to shoot now? can I execute the guy? can I?" thing. It's bad juju all around. If the woman and children need protection, take them to a guarded safehouse established for the purpose.

I actually had this situation happen to me, and the woman's husband was some kind of karate kuro-obi, and the problem wasn't finding a sanctuary for the family, the problem was that families always struggle for stasis. She wanted to find a way to return home and the problem was to get her to understand that she couldn't do that.
 
#38 ·
I've been through this as the child....And have heard many tales toward same first person as from the female/wife/mom.

If this event were me laid out exactly as stated in the OP, my very first thought after locking my front door (SOP @ my house) would be to close and lock all windows as well as to pull all the shades.
At the same time I'd have my wife right now as in immediately on the phone with the local police via either their business line (programmed into my cell) or 911 to report a domestic violence issue ongoing and that the victim is at my house in the immediate for refuge.

You can _bet_ that the victim either stated in so many words I'm going to so n so's house (ill advised but people under stress do strange things) or that the husband/bf would guess with a degree of accuracy where she went...with HIS kids. And he's not going to be in the most neighborly nor rational of moods.

Do not get involved with nor between a domestic argument.
It doesn't even have to be 'abuse'. Just a heated conversation/disagreement is all, and poof next thing you know you got nuclear escalation.

Treat these situations as being immediately hostile and the very best thing for everyone is to call the cops and have them remove the person from your own home to that of an actual safe place.
Locking your door front & rear is akin to turning on the lights as guard against roaches.
Good luck with that.

$0.02 Street

- Janq

P.S. - Ask any veteran police about domestic cases. They too will advise you to take any such instance with seriousness and _care_.
This goes for men AND women too. Oh, and just because the woman is crying or acting scared does not immediately mean that she is being _truthful_ or was not the actual instigator if not even the abuser herself (!).
Domestic abuse and violence is not strictly the domain of mean guy vs. woman, contrary to conventional view. Ask anyone who has ever lived in an apartment building with thin walls.

P.P.S. - Agreed very much with others including HG, if such person (male or female) shows up at your door...That right there is trespass if they are not invited AND do not leave upon told to remove themself. So again, call the cops (!).
As to kicking in/down doors and such well that is a no brainer and shouldn't even have to be an item of discussion.
Default in situations like this is to; Call the cops!
 
#42 ·
You can shoot him if he is trying to force his way into your house and you have a reasonable belief that he is going to commit a felony once inside your house.

Since you are keeping his wife inside the house, he could easily argue (and probably truthfully) that the reason he forced his way into your house was NOT to commit a felony, but rather to talk or yell at his wife. That's trespassing, but it's not a felony, and you do not have a right to shoot people for trespassing.

Therefore, unless he is brandishing a weapon or threatening to kill her or steal from you while forcing his way in, I don't believe you have a right to use deadly force to stop him...I could be wrong
 
#44 ·
sentioch,

I'm not from NC but was curious as to what the statute there supports.

So I looked it up...

§ 14‑51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.

(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence.

(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section.

(c) This section is not intended to repeal, expand, or limit any other defense that may exist under the common law. (1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 673, s. 1.)

Source - GS_14-51.1
This is what I'd expected, and is pretty common among most states.
The key qualifier in both your post scenario as well as the NC statute is the word; "force'.

Using force to cause a door to open or fail is not same as simply opening the door or forcing it with say a credit card.
If a person is using force enough to cause a door to fail as beyond it's primary lock and/or secondarys (chain, deadbolt, etc.) then that alone is a significant amount of force.
Further it's not likely that said person while applying said force would be doing so to enter so as to ask for a jump start of his dead car outside or to ask if your son Little Jimmy would like to come over next saturday to play catch with his son.
As well it's not likely that as he's on your property looking for his wife/gf and his kids that he's attempting to force the door in dead silence not uttering a word.

None of these things as related to force is what generally ocurrs in the real world of domestic/civil disturbance.

Last item take careful read of the NC statute.
Notice it specifically states; "...any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry...".

This is quite strong and habitant friendly (GG) language.

Very clear in plain English it is a statement that if you are within your home OR other place of residence (barn, garage, pool house...whatever) then you may use any degree of force up to and including lethal force as you yourself in the moment as the "occupant" deem reasonable.

What's left beyond that is individual prudence, as related to reasonableness", and ones own morality.

- General Assembly of NC
 
#45 ·
As a clinical social worker who has dealt with my share of abused spouses and children, my advice would be for you and your wife to assist this friend in finding an women's shelter/safe house for her to go to in the future. Your wife's friend's choice not to permanently leave her abusive spouse is putting you and your family in the direct path of an inevitable explosion. Can your wife still be supportive? Absolutely. Last time I checked they had telephones at women's shelters. She can get her kids to the shelter and then call your wife for all the emotional support she needs. Please don't expose your family to this danger any longer. It can and will bite you (I've seen it first hand).
 
#46 · (Edited)
Tell her to go away ?
Call 911 the second she seeks shelter makes sence !
Your are asking for trouble , A known victim attached to a time bomb !

She knows the proper way out and it ain't next door !

Sounds like a victim wanting a known gun handler to solve her problems .
After all you know her history thru your wife , she knows you carry !

No win
call 911 do not let her in unless bubba is heel to toe on her .


It's her bike , she bought it , she can pedal

Let her in in distress , domestic now becomes your problem !

She has know the problem , told your wife , and others , as per orginial post

wait here I'll call 911
 
#47 ·
I speak from experiance
mom was a victim
kept comming back for more
looking for help in all the wrong places

Lots of bruises me and moms

You would not want that man comming in your home if I were locked inside with my mother , ever


Sorry about the typos on a phone
 
#48 ·
Hate to see this has happened Sejune. We still need to go nab some coffee sometime. But as far as SC Castle Doctrine goes, we're almost as well off as Texas. Someone forcibly enters, well, thankfully the DA seems to like us being armed.

We can't be more than a few clicks from each other. Would love to sit down and have a chat with you about the whole bit before long. If you're in one of the "West side" neighborhoods, I could probably walk there.
 
#50 ·
Welcome to the forum! I have used a stun device under actual conditions and more than once. I have found that on a belligerent drunk simply being intrusive or obnoxious that loud FRYING BACON sound will cut thru the foggiest drug or alcohol addled mind like a hot knife thru butter. EVERYBODY remembers the immortal scream: "DON'T TASE ME BRO!" They know what you're about to do and they know it will hurt a lot more than they're prepared to endure for something suddenly not so important. However, there does exist the rare individual who is simply resistant to high voltage. I have a close friend. We served together on the same post. He is an army legend for having survived two direct lightning strikes and walked away from both! Moreover when he retired on disability (from parachuting after 12 years in a Ranger Battalion -- the normal rotation is only 3 yrs) he was fiddling with the power at his home and shorted the entire load across his chest also shorting out the block. He walked away from that one, too. His chest was burned, though. He could take a TASER strike and grin at you while he wiped the floor with your face. So there is that. PEPPER SPRAY? It only serves to make folks really MAD. Plus, it's fickle. If it's a gusty day and the wind shifts you might be in a fix. I like to layer my defense along with a firearm: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/1900000-volt-rechargeable-stun-gun.aspx?a=385979 or maybe: http://www.shomer-tec.com/product/impact-kerambit-96.cfm plus a knife.
 
#52 ·
wow that one lucky buddy! was trying to think of other ways to stop the husband with out killing him, and those seemed logical.
i know what u mean on the pepper spray! for one of my jobs they trained us for bear attacks and then had us fire a bear spray and shot guns. just being near the spent can caused my nose to run...
 
#54 ·
Angry husband

I've been in that situation a few times, where I also knew the husband/boyfriend.
I talked to them outside, at the driveway. Let them know they could come in and talk, in MY house. That they need to remember they'll be in my house, and to stay peaceful and calm, or the problem would get much bigger for them very fast. A couple of times I let them in and they talked, a couple of times I didn't, because I wasn't convinced they'd remain calm.
Of course this can be a heart racing situation, and you've got to be prepared for the unexpected, but there was never anything close to a lethal engagement in any of these occurrences.
In the instance of the OP, I can't get away from the fact he never was physical with his wife, so what's the chance he's going to get physical with me, on my property.
I think it's important to slow down the situation in order to diffuse it.
 
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