Wife has a friend that is a victem of domestic abuse, and she comes to your house.

This is a discussion on Wife has a friend that is a victem of domestic abuse, and she comes to your house. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As a retired LEO, I have to agree with Hotguns. This guy is a trespasser and his rights end at the sidewalk. As for custody, ...

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Thread: Wife has a friend that is a victem of domestic abuse, and she comes to your house.

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    As a retired LEO, I have to agree with Hotguns. This guy is a trespasser and his rights end at the sidewalk. As for custody, they both have equal rights to the kids. If he wants sole custody, thats what lawyers are for.
    You do need to have her seek out a shelter, because the situation will only get worse and you will be dragged in deeper and deeper.
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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    "Okay, let me get your opinions on this scenario. My wife has a friend who has 2 children, 3 and 5. From her accounts she is in a verbally abusive relationship and her husband treats her very poorly in my opinion...again from her accounts."

    i dont see a way that this could end up well for you...a verbally abusive relationship to me means no physical violence has occured and i'm pretty sure if you met his aggressiveness with a violent response the first words out of her mouth are going to be "he's never hurt me. you should have let him in."...

    this is a situation that requires an intervention by professionals and needs to be out of your hands...being a good friend is one thing...being asked to get between her husband and family is another altogether...it wouldnt be a bad idea to consult legal council for advice...its a hornets nest and your swinging a stick at it...

  4. #33
    Member Array Sejune's Avatar
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    Thanks to all your comments, I have taken them all in, and there is some excellent advise in those posts, as always. As an update to the situation, she decided to return home last night with her kids. He never showed up at our house, but I was very concerned that it could happen. She called my wife when she got home and reported that she was okay, and that they were staying the night in separate rooms.

    They are already in marital counseling, and she sees a personal counselor. It is a typical abuse situation where she gets abused and goes right back and lets the cycle continue. Its a mess and I hope she finds a way out, but I doubt that is going to happen.

    Again, thanks everyone!
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  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    good news...bad news...

    shes back home with him and you were contemplating whether you would have to use deadly force to protect her from him...

    if thats not a strong message to anyone who recommended you protect your castle i dont know what is....

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    The advise given here has been very sound.

    If it were me, I would encourage my wife to brake off the relationship with this troubled wife.

    My personal family, wife and children don't need her problems in our home.
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    I've been verbally and emotionally abused. Had 3 kids with him (long story), and it took 20 years to leave him. If you haven't been there, you can't know how difficult it can be, the dynamics of fear and twisted power, the slow waning of your sanity, your self-respect, your sense of control over your very thoughts. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

    Congrats to the OP for his decision to offer her shelter.

    That said, I believe he should tell the woman that a one-time run to their house for safety was fine, but no more. After that - the woman should run to a shelter -- permanently.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    DefConGun really lays it out clear and correct. Nothing to add to that except to reiterate the point that shooting someone brings down a world of hurt and there are very few cases where the police will shake your hand, haul away the body and you go on with your business.

    More likely, you'll be in the fight of your life getting extricated from it so let's stay far away from the "can I shoot him now? can I kill him now? is it OK to shoot now? can I execute the guy? can I?" thing. It's bad juju all around. If the woman and children need protection, take them to a guarded safehouse established for the purpose.

    I actually had this situation happen to me, and the woman's husband was some kind of karate kuro-obi, and the problem wasn't finding a sanctuary for the family, the problem was that families always struggle for stasis. She wanted to find a way to return home and the problem was to get her to understand that she couldn't do that.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I've been through this as the child....And have heard many tales toward same first person as from the female/wife/mom.

    If this event were me laid out exactly as stated in the OP, my very first thought after locking my front door (SOP @ my house) would be to close and lock all windows as well as to pull all the shades.
    At the same time I'd have my wife right now as in immediately on the phone with the local police via either their business line (programmed into my cell) or 911 to report a domestic violence issue ongoing and that the victim is at my house in the immediate for refuge.

    You can _bet_ that the victim either stated in so many words I'm going to so n so's house (ill advised but people under stress do strange things) or that the husband/bf would guess with a degree of accuracy where she went...with HIS kids. And he's not going to be in the most neighborly nor rational of moods.

    Do not get involved with nor between a domestic argument.
    It doesn't even have to be 'abuse'. Just a heated conversation/disagreement is all, and poof next thing you know you got nuclear escalation.

    Treat these situations as being immediately hostile and the very best thing for everyone is to call the cops and have them remove the person from your own home to that of an actual safe place.
    Locking your door front & rear is akin to turning on the lights as guard against roaches.
    Good luck with that.

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    - Janq

    P.S. - Ask any veteran police about domestic cases. They too will advise you to take any such instance with seriousness and _care_.
    This goes for men AND women too. Oh, and just because the woman is crying or acting scared does not immediately mean that she is being _truthful_ or was not the actual instigator if not even the abuser herself (!).
    Domestic abuse and violence is not strictly the domain of mean guy vs. woman, contrary to conventional view. Ask anyone who has ever lived in an apartment building with thin walls.

    P.P.S. - Agreed very much with others including HG, if such person (male or female) shows up at your door...That right there is trespass if they are not invited AND do not leave upon told to remove themself. So again, call the cops (!).
    As to kicking in/down doors and such well that is a no brainer and shouldn't even have to be an item of discussion.
    Default in situations like this is to; Call the cops!
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sejune View Post
    Thanks to all your comments, I have taken them all in, and there is some excellent advise in those posts, as always. As an update to the situation, she decided to return home last night with her kids. He never showed up at our house, but I was very concerned that it could happen. She called my wife when she got home and reported that she was okay, and that they were staying the night in separate rooms.

    They are already in marital counseling, and she sees a personal counselor. It is a typical abuse situation where she gets abused and goes right back and lets the cycle continue. Its a mess and I hope she finds a way out, but I doubt that is going to happen.

    Again, thanks everyone!
    In my opinion you and your wife should tell this lady that she has already used her safe harbor at your house. You hope she resolves her problems but she is not to bring them (the problems) to your house again.

  11. #40
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    Don't be an enabler. I wouldn't let this little scenario where this lady comes to your house to become a regular event. If this woman really wants help and out of this situation then there is help and assistance available. Help her to get in touch with a spousal abuse center - I'm very sure there is one in your area and if you can't find one - call the State Police and describe your situation and ask them for assistance, I'm sure they can point you in the right direction. As much as I would like to see this lady out of her abusive situation, I wouldn't want her to habitually put you and your family in danger.
    +1

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    I've been through this as the child....And have heard many tales toward same first person as from the female/wife/mom.

    If this event were me laid out exactly as stated in the OP, my very first thought after locking my front door (SOP @ my house) would be to close and lock all windows as well as to pull all the shades.
    At the same time I'd have my wife right now as in immediately on the phone with the local police via either their business line (programmed into my cell) or 911 to report a domestic violence issue ongoing and that the victim is at my house in the immediate for refuge.

    You can _bet_ that the victim either stated in so many words I'm going to so n so's house (ill advised but people under stress do strange things) or that the husband/bf would guess with a degree of accuracy where she went...with HIS kids. And he's not going to be in the most neighborly nor rational of moods.

    Do not get involved with nor between a domestic argument.
    It doesn't even have to be 'abuse'. Just a heated conversation/disagreement is all, and poof next thing you know you got nuclear escalation.

    Treat these situations as being immediately hostile and the very best thing for everyone is to call the cops and have them remove the person from your own home to that of an actual safe place.
    Locking your door front & rear is akin to turning on the lights as guard against roaches.
    Good luck with that.

    $0.02 Street

    - Janq

    P.S. - Ask any veteran police about domestic cases. They too will advise you to take any such instance with seriousness and _care_.
    This goes for men AND women too. Oh, and just because the woman is crying or acting scared does not immediately mean that she is being _truthful_ or was not the actual instigator if not even the abuser herself (!).
    Domestic abuse and violence is not strictly the domain of mean guy vs. woman, contrary to conventional view. Ask anyone who has ever lived in an apartment building with thin walls.

    P.P.S. - Agreed very much with others including HG, if such person (male or female) shows up at your door...That right there is trespass if they are not invited AND do not leave upon told to remove themself. So again, call the cops (!).
    As to kicking in/down doors and such well that is a no brainer and shouldn't even have to be an item of discussion.
    Default in situations like this is to; Call the cops!
    Excellent post!!!!
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
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    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
    -J.R.R. Tolkien

  13. #42
    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    You can shoot him if he is trying to force his way into your house and you have a reasonable belief that he is going to commit a felony once inside your house.

    Since you are keeping his wife inside the house, he could easily argue (and probably truthfully) that the reason he forced his way into your house was NOT to commit a felony, but rather to talk or yell at his wife. That's trespassing, but it's not a felony, and you do not have a right to shoot people for trespassing.

    Therefore, unless he is brandishing a weapon or threatening to kill her or steal from you while forcing his way in, I don't believe you have a right to use deadly force to stop him...I could be wrong
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    It's a no win.
    If he forces his way in and you harm him, you can count on the wife to be all loving and throw you under the bus.
    Take her in, then get her to a safe location until she decides to go back home, which she will.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    sentioch,

    I'm not from NC but was curious as to what the statute there supports.

    So I looked it up...

    14‑51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.

    (a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence.

    (b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section.

    (c) This section is not intended to repeal, expand, or limit any other defense that may exist under the common law. (1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 673, s. 1.)

    Source - GS_14-51.1
    This is what I'd expected, and is pretty common among most states.
    The key qualifier in both your post scenario as well as the NC statute is the word; "force'.

    Using force to cause a door to open or fail is not same as simply opening the door or forcing it with say a credit card.
    If a person is using force enough to cause a door to fail as beyond it's primary lock and/or secondarys (chain, deadbolt, etc.) then that alone is a significant amount of force.
    Further it's not likely that said person while applying said force would be doing so to enter so as to ask for a jump start of his dead car outside or to ask if your son Little Jimmy would like to come over next saturday to play catch with his son.
    As well it's not likely that as he's on your property looking for his wife/gf and his kids that he's attempting to force the door in dead silence not uttering a word.

    None of these things as related to force is what generally ocurrs in the real world of domestic/civil disturbance.

    Last item take careful read of the NC statute.
    Notice it specifically states; "...any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry...".

    This is quite strong and habitant friendly (GG) language.

    Very clear in plain English it is a statement that if you are within your home OR other place of residence (barn, garage, pool house...whatever) then you may use any degree of force up to and including lethal force as you yourself in the moment as the "occupant" deem reasonable.

    What's left beyond that is individual prudence, as related to reasonableness", and ones own morality.

    - General Assembly of NC
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  16. #45
    Member Array carryon's Avatar
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    As a clinical social worker who has dealt with my share of abused spouses and children, my advice would be for you and your wife to assist this friend in finding an women's shelter/safe house for her to go to in the future. Your wife's friend's choice not to permanently leave her abusive spouse is putting you and your family in the direct path of an inevitable explosion. Can your wife still be supportive? Absolutely. Last time I checked they had telephones at women's shelters. She can get her kids to the shelter and then call your wife for all the emotional support she needs. Please don't expose your family to this danger any longer. It can and will bite you (I've seen it first hand).
    Carry on my friend~~
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