Boys, it almost happened on the 4th of July... - Page 3

Boys, it almost happened on the 4th of July...

This is a discussion on Boys, it almost happened on the 4th of July... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wow, good reminder! In my neck of the woods, LEO or not, threat of severe bodily harm or death must be imminent, as seen through ...

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Thread: Boys, it almost happened on the 4th of July...

  1. #31
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    Array Thumper's Avatar
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    Wow, good reminder!

    In my neck of the woods, LEO or not, threat of severe bodily harm or death must be imminent, as seen through the eyes of a Police Officer or the common man... whoever that is, to be justified in using deadly force. It's a tuff call to make especially as rapidly as situations like that develop. One of the reasons a lot of CCWers will not intervene.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."


  2. #32
    Member Array Blackheart6's Avatar
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    Good job, right place, right time. My post-thought was; "How long did it take her to bail him out?"

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I would postulate that covering the susp was a precautionary measure, with no intention to use lethal force until called for. I have covered a hell of a lot more people than i've shot.

  4. #34
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    Hey jbourne... Great job! Way to be heads up.

    I believe your response was straight down the line 100% appropriate!

    I get the feel that good consistent training was part of what provided the good results.

    The point I'm trying to make is that these events we discuss here almost always come out of the blue at moments we least expect. As you rightfully noted in your post.

    If we as civilians aren't training on specific responses in the form of drills to unexpected and surprise events, we will likely not have such good results in the outcome as you did.

    Great story... Tense moments... And a good outcome!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    In just a few seconds, they had this crystal-critter hosed down with OC, on the ground and in handcuffs.
    Best descriptive alliteration EVER! HAHAHAHA
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
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  6. #36
    Member Array jbourneidentity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoBigOrange View Post
    ok I'm really confused, either I can't read or it's not in the original post but why exactly would you have shot him?????? I didn't see the mention of him having a weapon, all you said was that he was closing in on her. Did he have a gun, knife, club, bat?????

    I'll try reading it again, maybe 3rd time will be the charm.
    I do not recall seeing a weapon in his hands. I don't know if he had one in his pockets or in his waistband behind his back, or if he had one in the house up the hill. My involvement in this event probably lasted 20 seconds. I apologize for my lack of post-event intel.

    I produced my G22 because of her sheer terror and his obvious rage. If you could've seen the look of fear on her face and the pure hatred in his, my reasoning would've been clear. Without question, I was in fear for her life and safety and was witnessing a felonious assault (the fear of imminent bodily harm, crippling injury, or death). In my view, his sheer rage, aggressive pursuit and body language made his intent obvious and was the equivalent of a weapon in his hands. If he'd caught her, I have no doubt that he would've proceeded to cave her head in or choke her to death. Simply because he did not have a weapon per se did not mean that he was not capable of causing her grievous bodily injury or death, the requisite standard for the use of a firearm in self-defense. I was ready for that possibility simply because what I observed indicated that it was a likely occurrence if he caught her.

    However, had he caught her and not attempted to seriously injure or kill her, I would not have been justified in shooting and would have had to take another course of action. I was prepared for that, too.

    Guantes probably summed up my reasoning best in his post above...

    Thanks.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array GoBigOrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbourneidentity View Post
    I do not recall seeing a weapon in his hands. I don't know if he had one in his pockets or in his waistband behind his back, or if he had one in the house up the hill. My involvement in this event probably lasted 20 seconds. I apologize for my lack of post-event intel.

    I produced my G22 because of her sheer terror and his obvious rage. If you could've seen the look of fear on her face and the pure hatred in his, my reasoning would've been clear. Without question, I was in fear for her life and safety and was witnessing a felonious assault (the fear of imminent bodily harm, crippling injury, or death). In my view, his sheer rage, aggressive pursuit and body language made his intent obvious and was the equivalent of a weapon in his hands. If he'd caught her, I have no doubt that he would've proceeded to cave her head in or choke her to death. Simply because he did not have a weapon per se did not mean that he was not capable of causing her grievous bodily injury or death, the requisite standard for the use of a firearm in self-defense. I was ready for that possibility simply because what I observed indicated that it was a likely occurrence if he caught her.

    However, had he caught her and not attempted to seriously injure or kill her, I would not have been justified in shooting and would have had to take another course of action. I was prepared for that, too.

    Guantes probably summed up my reasoning best in his post above...

    Thanks.
    works for me! thanks for clearing it up. Glad everything worked out and you didn't have to shoot. Sounds like you handled it well.

  8. #38
    Member Array Bullitt1724's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbourneidentity View Post


    It's very hot in Arkansas right now and my other holsters (Safariland ALS, etc.) are just not conducive for good concealed carry when I'm wearing cargo shorts and a t-shirt.

    Thanks for the input.
    JBI,
    I was in NW Arkansas all weekend. Eureka Springs/Holiday Island. I was wearing my Crossbread Supertuck and a 1911 iwb wearing Cargo shorts all weekend.
    Best holster I have ever owned.

  9. #39
    Member Array Medic218's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbourneidentity View Post
    Trouble comes when you least expect it, even in your own backyard, and we have to be armed at all times...even in God's country.
    Remember, Satan came from God's country too. Trouble can be and IS everywhere
    "I don't like repeat offenders, I like DEAD offenders!" -- Ted Nugent
    "Not everyone can be born with common sense, some are born liberals." -- MM218

  10. #40
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    I have a little law enforcement experience. It's quite uncomfortable drawing on a suspect then having to regroup when you both know you won't shoot. If he had just started smacking her around you would have had to stow the gun either in your pants of back in your car, then go hands on. Not a good scenario.

    I bet she was as surprised as you were when she found out she flagged down a cop!

    Does your wife carry? Has she begun to re-evaluate society's dangers and her role in it?

    You mentioned he weighed in at 145. That's just a hair above puny to me since I am double that easy plus a big dinner. I could bounce him back to the farm. I'm assuming you related this as the lady was a fair bit smaller, signifying a disparity?

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    It's nice you had a gun in your bag,do you strap it on when you leave?You never know when stuff happens and 10 feet away could be 10 feet too many,A police chief in a border town by Mexico carried his G26 in his vehicle,after threats from Mexico he carries on his belt now
    The Police Chief in AR that went to confront 2 double cop killers last month left his sidearm in his desk because he was rushing to catch a ride with another Officer. Both of them got shot up pretty bad even after a Conservation Officer drove his pickup into and almost through their minivan. And they KNEW the suspects had recently killed 2 LEOs with an AK.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  11. #41
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by jbourneidentity View Post
    So, for me, the lesson I've learned 1000 times over 20 years is reinforced yet again. Trouble comes when you least expect it, even in your own backyard, and we have to be armed at all times...even in God's country.
    Anytime. Anywhere.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbourneidentity View Post
    Lesson learned: Have multiple concealment holsters. The only reason I don't is cash, but I've picked up a second job, and good CCW gear is tops on the priority list.

    Thanks for the input.
    I only have good 1911 and a few Sig/HK holsters around, but I'd be willing to throw into a pot or send you something I have that you need....seriously. I don't like the fact that you didn't have your gun on you and don't want to see that happen again, next time there might not be enough time.

    Tell me what's on your "to buy" list and I'll see what I have that I could send your way.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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