Old scenario, still think about it - Page 4

Old scenario, still think about it

This is a discussion on Old scenario, still think about it within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ctsketch Am I so transparent... or are you physic too?! you mean you dont know?.....

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Thread: Old scenario, still think about it

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Am I so transparent...

    or are you physic too?!
    you mean you dont know?..


  2. #47
    Member Array yoyomeng's Avatar
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    Also you can pretty much throw out the possibility of drawing a gun in this situation (rock show) as they search for guns specifically at all I've been to. Knives are easy enough to hide though. Using either would still be a bad idea IMO

  3. #48
    Member Array PRSOrator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you state an attacker got tried and convicted by the state...yet you had no case...the guy who choked you rolled on the guy who hit you so his roll was clear and he worked for the venue...yet you had no case...

    were you told this by a lawyer or are you assuming you had no case?...the venue could harldly say they were defending themselves if nobody had approached you previously and you were attacked from behind by a security person...
    Are you a lawyer?

  4. #49
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRSOrator View Post
    Are you a lawyer?
    do i have to be one to ask?

  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    In something like this, you are running off of instinct and this is where training and having appropriate instincts is really going to come into play and help you because it happened so fast I don't think you are going to have time to think it through. I'm not sure if I could've gotten out of the choke but if I had (like you did) I think I would've stabbed the attacker in the gut and threaten the other the same if he advanced on me. I agree with the others that say this is a no win situation because you could possibly get into a lot of trouble for stabbing someone in the gut if you couldn't prove you were truly defending yourself but it's hard for me to imagine you had that many people around and at the same time did not have any witnesses. IHO I wouldn't have used a gun in this situation - can you imagine living with yourself if you had accidentally shot a baby? I know babies and rock shows don't sound like they go together but it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't some there. To be honest, if I were in that choke hold like that, I imagine I would've reached for my folder and stabbed the guy in the leg (front thigh) - I'm sure he would've let go then. It's easy to think what you would've done but with me having the luxury of thinking about it, I think after you stab the guy's leg, start yelling - "Help! I'm being attacked!" I would say for you to yell while being choked but I'm sure that probably wouldn't had been possible. I know yelling this might not help because at this point you have a bloody knife in your hand but if you show that you're not being the aggressor it might prevent you from being shot by an over zealous security guard, etc.

    Others suggesting to having a friend/s with you - all with the agreement/arrangement to watch each others' back is an excellent idea but not always possible.

    Even if there hand't been a mistaken identity on the security guard's part, there was no reason for him to behave the way he did and would've been in the wrong even if you had been going around acting like an idiot.

    I'm sorry this has happened to you and hope for the best for you in the future. You still may want to see a lawyer to see if you can't pursue this further if it is in your desire to do so.

    This is one reason why I don't like large crowds
    Last edited by DefConGun; July 8th, 2010 at 08:31 PM.

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    This^

    All you can hope to do in a situation like this is hope your SD training kicks in (like you did, to escape the choke). I can sit here and be an arm chair QB and say I would not shoot in a crowded place, but who knows what I'd do when I perceived my life to be in danger.

    #1 would be to try and escape the grip and strike the attacker preferably somewhere below the belt...

    #2 would be to get behind the attacker (this would also allow me to see if he has any buddies)



    Ditto
    Ditto^
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
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    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    A shin-scrape would probably have got you at least let down to the ground, if not released. Best bet at that point for me would have been to grab the choking arm, pull down hard and rotate the shoulder on that side down hard. With practice it's not hard to toss even a fairly large person over your shoulder, assuming they aren't well-trained.
    I shoulder throw, what they taught in Judo/Sasoru Goshin-Jitsu. Good to have technical skills to fall back on as well.

  8. #53
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    I know what you mean, even though I am still young I still look back and rethink my past actions...what I should have done..makes me sad sometimes :p
    Me too. Reflecting back on some of the altercations I lost in my childhood, I should have taken martial arts/self-defense when I was younger.

  9. #54
    Member Array Prophezine's Avatar
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    This is why I ALWAYS at least carry my knife. I have OC on my keyring as well as a "pen" and 1.3 can I carry depending on the clothes I wear.

    If that would have happened to me, I would have stabbed him in the inside of the thigh going for the femoral artery, he would have bled to death rather quickly.

    I don't know as to the extent of the legal aspect and protecting one's self in this situation using a knife. It would be interesting to find out.

    This is also why I practice opening my knife with one hand and why it is part of my EDC.

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  10. #55
    Member Array Kenny256's Avatar
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    My dad is not a violent man but one thing he taught me was that if you are grabbed from behind reach down and get yourself a hand full and squeez/twist for everything you are worth.
    Carry-S&W 642
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    The Dalai Lama:"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Whatever you decide, you've got about five seconds to implement it.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Whatever you decide, you've got about five seconds to implement it.
    +1. It's not a good position to be in. Nighty night.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Whatever you decide, you've got about five seconds to implement it.
    Right.

    This is why the "I'm going to grab my gun/knife/flashlight" chest-beating bragadoccio remarks are wrong in this analysis. If the choke hold is applied correctly, you have around 10 seconds. You can hold your breath longer than that, but if your circulation is cut off, you'll be out in 10.

    So. You realize you're in a choke hold and someone is attacking you from behind. Unless you train for this regularly, subtract 2 seconds. Now you have to formulate a response. Unless you have automatic reflex skills, you're going to have to think about a response. Lose 2 more seconds. You have 6 seconds left.

    Great. So now you're fishing for your little Spyderco. Yay!

    Takes you a few seconds to get your hand on it, a couple more to pull it out, then you have to fumble for the little spydie hole and flick the blade, then turn the handle in your hand to stab it behind and oh dear. You lost on time a LONG time ago. You never made it this far by a longshot.

    Some of the people here have mentioned turning the head to the direction of the choking elbow. That buys time and the turn and response have to be right. Turn the wrong way and you only tighten the hold. This stuff isn't comedy. It isn't a joke.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Personally, I think ten seconds is a stretch with a carotid choke.

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    i've had to tap in much less than 10 seconds with a properly applied choke after about 5 seconds I was already seeing grey!
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