This is a discussion on Old scenario, still think about it within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ctsketch Am I so transparent... or are you physic too?! you mean you dont know?.....
Also you can pretty much throw out the possibility of drawing a gun in this situation (rock show) as they search for guns specifically at all I've been to. Knives are easy enough to hide though. Using either would still be a bad idea IMO
In something like this, you are running off of instinct and this is where training and having appropriate instincts is really going to come into play and help you because it happened so fast I don't think you are going to have time to think it through. I'm not sure if I could've gotten out of the choke but if I had (like you did) I think I would've stabbed the attacker in the gut and threaten the other the same if he advanced on me. I agree with the others that say this is a no win situation because you could possibly get into a lot of trouble for stabbing someone in the gut if you couldn't prove you were truly defending yourself but it's hard for me to imagine you had that many people around and at the same time did not have any witnesses. IHO I wouldn't have used a gun in this situation - can you imagine living with yourself if you had accidentally shot a baby? I know babies and rock shows don't sound like they go together but it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't some there. To be honest, if I were in that choke hold like that, I imagine I would've reached for my folder and stabbed the guy in the leg (front thigh) - I'm sure he would've let go then. It's easy to think what you would've done but with me having the luxury of thinking about it, I think after you stab the guy's leg, start yelling - "Help! I'm being attacked!" I would say for you to yell while being choked but I'm sure that probably wouldn't had been possible. I know yelling this might not help because at this point you have a bloody knife in your hand but if you show that you're not being the aggressor it might prevent you from being shot by an over zealous security guard, etc.
Others suggesting to having a friend/s with you - all with the agreement/arrangement to watch each others' back is an excellent idea but not always possible.
Even if there hand't been a mistaken identity on the security guard's part, there was no reason for him to behave the way he did and would've been in the wrong even if you had been going around acting like an idiot.
I'm sorry this has happened to you and hope for the best for you in the future. You still may want to see a lawyer to see if you can't pursue this further if it is in your desire to do so.
This is one reason why I don't like large crowds
Last edited by DefConGun; July 8th, 2010 at 08:31 PM.
NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.
This is why I ALWAYS at least carry my knife. I have OC on my keyring as well as a "pen" and 1.3 can I carry depending on the clothes I wear.
If that would have happened to me, I would have stabbed him in the inside of the thigh going for the femoral artery, he would have bled to death rather quickly.
I don't know as to the extent of the legal aspect and protecting one's self in this situation using a knife. It would be interesting to find out.
This is also why I practice opening my knife with one hand and why it is part of my EDC.
My dad is not a violent man but one thing he taught me was that if you are grabbed from behind reach down and get yourself a hand full and squeez/twist for everything you are worth.
The Dalai Lama:"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
Whatever you decide, you've got about five seconds to implement it.
Right.Whatever you decide, you've got about five seconds to implement it.
This is why the "I'm going to grab my gun/knife/flashlight" chest-beating bragadoccio remarks are wrong in this analysis. If the choke hold is applied correctly, you have around 10 seconds. You can hold your breath longer than that, but if your circulation is cut off, you'll be out in 10.
So. You realize you're in a choke hold and someone is attacking you from behind. Unless you train for this regularly, subtract 2 seconds. Now you have to formulate a response. Unless you have automatic reflex skills, you're going to have to think about a response. Lose 2 more seconds. You have 6 seconds left.
Great. So now you're fishing for your little Spyderco. Yay!
Takes you a few seconds to get your hand on it, a couple more to pull it out, then you have to fumble for the little spydie hole and flick the blade, then turn the handle in your hand to stab it behind and oh dear. You lost on time a LONG time ago. You never made it this far by a longshot.
Some of the people here have mentioned turning the head to the direction of the choking elbow. That buys time and the turn and response have to be right. Turn the wrong way and you only tighten the hold. This stuff isn't comedy. It isn't a joke.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
Personally, I think ten seconds is a stretch with a carotid choke.
i've had to tap in much less than 10 seconds with a properly applied choke after about 5 seconds I was already seeing grey!