BG Orders All CCWs to Toss Their Weapons
This is a discussion on BG Orders All CCWs to Toss Their Weapons within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'd see what his reaction time is.
Jerry Mickulek I am not, but he's still gotta beat 2.21 sec. to first shot, while trying to ...
July 11th, 2010 12:07 PM
I'd see what his reaction time is.
Jerry Mickulek I am not, but he's still gotta beat 2.21 sec. to first shot, while trying to identify the threat (me) and I have surprise on my side.
(However I agree that in Realityland this is a very unlikely scenario.)
I thoroughly disapprove of duels.
If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand
and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.
July 11th, 2010 12:07 PM
July 11th, 2010 12:24 PM
I'm getting off the X drawing and shooting while he is still talking. Likely he does not know what getting off the X is and has never tried to shoot a moving target headed for cover.
Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
NRA Endowment Life
There are NO Silver Medals for Street Combat
July 11th, 2010 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by gimpy
'Those who live by the sword die by the sword.'
But I agree with this post. If I have to die I might as well as take him down with me.
July 11th, 2010 01:38 PM
You give up your gun you are next to powerless. He expects us to be honest and voluntarily comply. You are armed and train (hopefully). Time to educate the bg in instant justice.
July 11th, 2010 02:09 PM
I'm with Biker.
Too little info for a detailed answer.
Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
A well armed lamb contesting the vote.
July 11th, 2010 02:43 PM
If you are going to just give up your weapon like that then there is no need for you to have one in the first place.
If a BG let me put my hands on my piece, whether by request or not (but especially if he ask me too! ;) ), my lead will fly... period.
"A .40 for easy carry, a .45 for the end of the world!!"
July 11th, 2010 02:48 PM
How is he going to know if you're armed or not?
If it's just one guy and he needs to search everyone in the place that means his hands are going to be occupied and you have a perfect chance to level the playing field.
So he tells everyone to get on one side of the building and asks those who are carrying to raise their hand.
What kind of idiot would raise their hand?!?!
He says that if he finds someone carrying he's going to plug the guy next to him or her. Again, he'd have to go looking and if you are concealing well then he's going to have to do some touching and looking.
Not to mention that there are 150 different places and ways to hide a gun. Many people carry BUGs and unless he has a partner who is standing guard with a shotgun then he's going to have a VERY hard time controlling the crowd by himself, especially if there is an individual who is unwilling to comply to unlawful search and seizure.
And let's not even consider those of us who also carry back up knives.
He comes to frisk you and he ends up with a 4" blade in his gut.
If anyone really tried this I have a strong suspicion he would not live to tell about it and it would be the biggest and dumbest mistake of his short criminal career.
The only draw back I could see would be a young concealed carrier or someone who hasn't really thought through things like giving over weapons and what that might mean.
In extremely stressful situations it's very natural for people to "follow the leader" and do what they are told even if they don't like it. They sort of go on autopilot and find themselves complying.
You hear of people lining up for their own executions, women getting into cars just on the orders to do so, etc, etc. The threat of harm or fear can go a long way to seemingly shut down a brain and it's ability to make a body act rationally even though that person KNOWS there is no good end to the situation.
It takes a lot of mental preparation to come to the conclusion (and the conviction) that you would rather die on the spot than hand over your weapon and see it used by someone else in a crime.
Some are not ready for that or haven't thought about it and so they could very willingly give over their CCW in the guise of "saving lives."
Let's also not forget to consider the desire to delay the inevitable. We WANT to believe the bad guy when he says, "Hand over your weapon and no one gets hurt." We KNOW that if we pull out gun it means going to the triggers and someone is going to get hurt, if not die, RIGHT NOW. Somewhere in our brain a little voice says, "See, he said if you hand it over no one will get hurt. Maybe he's telling the truth. Maybe you can avoid any kind of pain if you obey." And it's REALLY easy to give in to the possibility that you can delay doing or receiving pain just by obeying even when the rest of your brain is screaming, "DON'T BE AN IDIOT!?!"
That's why it's important to come to sure, fast rules such as, "never get into the car alive," or "never give up your firearm."
In the end, you're not sure exactly what you have to do but you know what you cannot do and whatever you have to do helps you act in accordance with those rules.
July 11th, 2010 03:39 PM
I would use someone else to cover my draw, then move away from them to fire, so as not to draw fire to them and have movement as an added advantage.
I think that using this scenario as an FoF drill would be very enlightening for many people. Beating "the drop" from a distance beyond combatives, without an edge, is VERY difficult.
July 11th, 2010 04:18 PM
The key is to be MAD and FIGHT.
Believe it or not, in today's world people can get shot and live to see another day. Now I am not one wishing this to happen, but I know that if I am shot, the odds are that I will recover unless it is a direct to the heart, "T" zone, ect.
By maintaining a " I am angry as hornets" mentality and doing all I can to do to win, it puts my brain & body into serious "fight mode." Blood is pulled into the core, adrenalin is up, pain tolerance is majorly up, etc.
When I was in the military they taught us that in this sort of fight for your life situation, your brain slows time down, thus speeding up your ability to assess situations and act quickly. They teach you to use this "time shift" to act and take out the BG. I have experienced the "time shift" many times and it has saved my life literally several times because I have used it to do what I needed to do and execute the plan after assessment.
Me, I would take the guy out.
In fact a side note, those were scenarios we exercised yesterday in a class I took. Had BG targets with hostages and bystanders. BGs got shot and good guys didn't. Long day at the range with excellent training.
July 11th, 2010 08:58 PM
First, he's carrying a Glock... so it wil jam.
Second . "Nobody move. Just keep cool and everyone gets out alive." He might not make it past "nobody".... if he's pointing a gun at me.
I hope I'm in the bank here with the big , thick marble counters.
Most bank robbers go up quietly to the teller and try NOT to be noticed, so I think the odds of this happening are small. And, most bank robbers tell the clerk they have a gun, but usually don't.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
July 11th, 2010 09:42 PM
Looks like a consensus here ... do NOT give up your weapon.
Further comment - Didn't we all learn on 9-11 that the "rules" have changed when it comes to bad guys? Absolute compliance with a BG, whether 30k feet in the air or in a bank, does not guarantee anyone's safety!
July 11th, 2010 11:06 PM
I can't remember the guys name, but will know, he was a big quick draw expert with the border patrol in the late 70's early 80's. Anyway, he taught us that if someone has a gun pointed at you, you can draw and shoot him before he can pull the trigger.
It works, we would practice with our partners. That said, doing in practice, and doing it in real life, are two different things. You need a good holster, and a smooth draw, but it's not that hard to do......
July 11th, 2010 11:14 PM
Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll
July 11th, 2010 11:15 PM
This would NOT be a good situation to be wearing a SMF vest or "tacticool" apparel. That being said, as previously said by others already, how would he know who all is carrying? Maybe I'd get lucky and someone else would draw and fire? Every situation is unique. Too bad hes not carrying a Taurus in this scenario, b/c then we KNOW it wouldn't matter if it was loaded it or not (zing!).
July 11th, 2010 11:17 PM
I believe it was ......Bill Jordan
Originally Posted by LEAPSpeaker
Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll
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