Unarmed Bad Guys Running at You

This is a discussion on Unarmed Bad Guys Running at You within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by DefConGun I'm not sure saying that two looters were running my way is going to give enough of an impression of endangerment ...

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Thread: Unarmed Bad Guys Running at You

  1. #16
    Member Array Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    I'm not sure saying that two looters were running my way is going to give enough of an impression of endangerment that the average person is going to believe you thought your life was in danger.
    Exactly. I don't think this meets the criteria for a reasonable or prudent person believing you were at "immediate risk of death or grave bodily harm." Also a good reason to have more than one tool at your disposal.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEAPSpeaker View Post
    You're taking an evening walk about 10PM and you're carrying. As you get about 100' from the door of a local store, the alarm goes off and two bad guys come out an obliviously kicked in door. It's a well lit area and they immediately see you, but rather than run away, they run toward you.

    As far as you can see they are unarmed, but these are big guys and they don't look friendly. They're in a full run coming at you, what do you do?
    Bad shoot bro. Those were two business owners/employees hauling tail because an armed burglar kicked the door in, they struggled and broke free. Now you just shot down two GOOD GUYS. They were heading in YOUR direction because their car was parked several feet behind you.

    Quote Originally Posted by LEAPSpeaker View Post
    To use deadly force you need to be in fear for your life or that of another. If you're afraid these bad guys could take your weapon and kill you, then I know I would be in fear for my life.
    I'm getting bothered by all this talk recently about "i have a gun, therefore I can practically shoot anyone who looks at me the wrong way, because they ARE going to disarm me, and that is a threat to my life"

  4. #18
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    Quickly move out of the way once, if they alter course, move again, time and distance permitting, and prepare to defend myself...The second move to get out of their way would be their only warning to my intentions. No verbal warnings period. If they again alter their course to continue towards me after I make the second move, then all bets are off, game on...JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  5. #19
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    So what is your tripwire? To go back to the original situation, if you've changed direction and they are obviously heading toward you, do you shoot two unarmed men charging at you?
    That is hard to say. First I would get out of the way of a determined man. Second, I would do everything I could including verbal commands. This is a good reason to carry less than lethal weapons. A couple shots of OC to the eyes and I would take off on foot while they were blinded.

    At this moment, them being unarmed, I wouldn't be justified in using my firearm. I don't want to go hand 2 hand with anyone, It puts me at risk. I'd rather OC them if they were unarmed and didn't listen to my verbal commands then take off.

  6. #20
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Quickly move out of the way once, if they alter course, move again, time and distance permitting, and prepare to defend myself...The second move to get out of their way would be their only warning to my intentions. No verbal warnings period. If they again alter their course to continue towards me after I make the second move, then all bets are off, game on...JMO
    BAD SHOOT Go to jail.

    They were good guys, who didn't speak english, maybe they were unable to speak, or in shock. They are visiting a family member who owns the business from another country. They were helping close up when an armed burglar struggles with them and they take off out of the door the burglar kicked in. You are the first person they see and they run to you for help. You offered no verbal commands, simply doing some strafing and decided it was sufficient enough retreat to drop the hammer.

  7. #21
    Member Array Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    That is hard to say. First I would get out of the way of a determined man. Second, I would do everything I could including verbal commands. This is a good reason to carry less than lethal weapons. A couple shots of OC to the eyes and I would take off on foot while they were blinded.

    At this moment, them being unarmed, I wouldn't be justified in using my firearm. I don't want to go hand 2 hand with anyone, It puts me at risk. I'd rather OC them if they were unarmed and didn't listen to my verbal commands then take off.
    Do you carry OC in your EDC?

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Can you cite a statistic that backs your assertion? My understanding is the reverse is true.
    +1 on that

  9. #23
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Do you carry OC in your EDC?
    No, but it's something I've been looking into. However, I do Open Carry as a daily mode of carry, so that may be a great deterrent in and of itself.

  10. #24
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    Immediately change direction and try to see what direction they're looking, not what direction they're running.If they aren't looking right at me, I'm probably just in their way.

    If they change directions to match me, I'll probably go right hand on grip, left hand motioning for them to stop and loudly telling them to back off.

    If I become convinced they're intent on harming me I draw and act accordingly depending on what they do from there. I'm not a very big guy and I don't want to go hand-to-hand with one person. Hand-to-hand with two people is going to end with me in the hospital, and that's not a trip I'm willing to make.

    I have no martial arts training and one person would be taxing for me to fight off I think. Two people is a no-go. They have the ability to kill me, they obviously have the opportunity to kill me, and if I've drawn it's because I feel in jeopardy. If I truly feel they're out to harm me I'm putting them down before they have a chance to lay a hand on me, because I may not have that chance after they get to me. Two on one is not odds I'm willing to take.
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  11. #25
    Member Array Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    No, but it's something I've been looking into. However, I do Open Carry as a daily mode of carry, so that may be a great deterrent in and of itself.
    Ah. I don't open carry, I live in the city.

    I find it improbably I would ever be in a situation like this, since the second I saw the door kicked in or the motion coming out of the door I would be halfway to Tuscon.

    However, if I was frozen in a block of ice or something, OC would be nice. I don't carry it every day, I don't feel like I have room for it, but who knows. A small can in the back pocket might keep me out of jail some day.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    BAD SHOOT Go to jail.

    They were good guys, who didn't speak english, maybe they were unable to speak, or in shock. They are visiting a family member who owns the business from another country. They were helping close up when an armed burglar struggles with them and they take off out of the door the burglar kicked in. You are the first person they see and they run to you for help. You offered no verbal commands, simply doing some strafing and decided it was sufficient enough retreat to drop the hammer.
    You do quite the job when it comes to imbellishing a story. If you will read the OP, it specifically stated "two bad guys". Also in one of your previous posts you stated the two runners were unarmed, when I believe in the OP, it stated it was uniknown as to whether or not they were armed. Second, game on doesn't necessarily indicate a shoot, however it definitely indicates Condition Red, weapon drawn, and prepared to fire. If the sight of my weapon does not deter their continued approach to me, then at that time I must make the decision to "fight or flight". I believe you would do well to create your own thread if you decide to create a storyline not previously stated in the OP. JMO

    An original post is designed to be answered based on the facts presented and NOT on the game of gossip that some of you play when you add, change, take away from the OP. Just something else to think about when you berate someone else for their answer to a scenario.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  13. #27
    Member Array Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    You do quite the job when it comes to imbellishing a story. If you will read the OP, it specifically stated "two bad guys". Second, game on doesn't necessarily indicate a shoot, however it definitely indicates Condition Red, weapon drawn, and prepared to fire. If the sight of my weapon does not deter their continued approach to me, then at that time I must make the decision to "fight or flight". I believe you would do well to create your own thread if you decide to create a storyline not previously stated in the OP. JMO
    It's still a bad shoot. Just because you have your gun out, an unarmed person running at you does not justify deadly force. They look like bad guys. Hell, I probably look like a bad guy sometimes. That doesn't make it so, or justify a shooting.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Ah. I don't open carry, I live in the city.
    The city you live in is quite OC friendly ( edit since we're also talking about OC spray , let me clarify I mean Open Carry )

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    The city you live in is quite OC friendly ( edit since we're also talking about OC spray , let me clarify I mean Open Carry )
    You know, I hear people say that. However, I grew up in the East Valley, all over the place in every city/burb. I've also lived downtown, on the west side, and now in north Phoenix.

    I do not believe I have seen anyone open carrying since I was a kid and I saw a guy clearing his weapon outside a Smitty's (I remember the barrel!).

    For all I hear about the valley being open carry friendly, I don't see it. Maybe one day for ****s and giggles I'll give it a shot and see what happens, but I'm willing to bet I get treated like a leper.

  16. #30
    RKM
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    I'd run. If they follow me, then, well, that's THEIR problem.

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