12:00 give me your money !

This is a discussion on 12:00 give me your money ! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 68Mustang The probability that he would shoot you for grabbing the gun is higher than if he would shoot you if you ...

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Thread: 12:00 give me your money !

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68Mustang View Post
    The probability that he would shoot you for grabbing the gun is higher than if he would shoot you if you gave him the money. No guarantees either way but I'd error on the side of surviving giving him the cash. If he drops his guard when he sees the money, blow him away.
    I am less believing in that than in the past. With more and more robberies by bangers, the odds of him capping you just for street cred/initiation or he took the way you looked at him as dissing him, even if you didn't. I have little faith in their professionalism (as robbers) or their benevolence.

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  3. #32
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    Head down, partially averting eyes... "please, please sir, I'll g-g-g-ive you my wallet. I have kids. Take it" Hand over wallet and attempt to slide away from in front of his muzzle.

    If he say's there is no cash in it.

    "Sorry it is in my front pocket. I'm so sorry." Hand over cash.

    If he EVER attempts to acquire his front sight, all bets are off. I move my head, attempt to move his muzzle and keep it away.

    If it requires my strong hand, I target the tendons below the quad, the tricep and major nerves with my knife. If I can control it with my weak hand I shoot from retention.

    If he point shoots at that distance I'll never know.

    I anyone has the draw on me from 2" I don't do anything aggressive until I have to.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I'm gonna stick my finger in the end of the barrel just like on TV
    I like it!!!
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    http://news.yahoo.com/video/odd-15749658/20888161

    Maybe not what the OP had in mind, but a rough idea, yes?
    Anybody ever really consider just how blinded / disoriented / dizzy one might become after a point blank muzzle blast near the head, even if its a miss? The concussion, the burning powder and residue, the noise, the flash, if in low light may really hamper all the 'best laid plans' of resistance.

    I'm not advocating NOT doing anything, just adding a little sumptn' to the pot. Let's say you initiate a move that, as one poster noted, has about an 80% fail rate. Let's say you hit it 'ok', but not perfect. You aren't shot outright, but the gunman discharges a round from that pistol that was less than 2" from your head, pointed in your face. How well will your fight proceed now that the ear to the gunside has quite possibly had its eardrum ruptured as you attempt to get off the x, the eyes have been burned with powder and flash from the muzzle blast? Your equilibrium is compromised dreadfully, and you have lost sight of your adversary. Bet his next shot don't miss, if he so chooses to make one.

    Those who work FoF scenarios with airsoft or sims can appreciate how many times they've been shot versus how many times they've come away unscathed. Even then, sims or airsoft, coupled w protective gear can't really bring into play all the factors mentioned above (flash, concussion, burns, etc). Add those factors in, and the sims guys will tell you the failure rate would undoubtedly increase.

    So, what to do? Hell, i don't know. Each and every case is unique. What I'd do in one case may be different than what I'd do in another case, just because of one small change. My reaction or action may be dictated in what I read in the gunman's eyes. Or if I think by complying, I may AT LEAST buy some more time to gain any time/distance advantage. I may comply totally, if I believe this guy to be more of a pro at armed robbery than I am at weapon takeaway or drawing this far behind the curve, and that once he has the wallet, he's gonna split. Or, I may figure he's gonna wax my a$$ no matter what, and I go hard and fast inside, try to be chest to chest and drive him into the ground or a wall behind him. I dunno. Like I said, all depends. Just don't forget the gunman doesn't have to score a direct hit for that pistol to due some real damage.

    Just my ramblings,

    dan

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    I love reading this forum because I love reading the ideas/comments from the men that are really in the know. I have nothing to add to this and have learned a lot from the comments posted thus far. Dan makes a lot of sense. A lot of what you would do would depend on the exact circumstance. I know I say it all the time on here but it's hard to out draw a drawn gun so with that being said, I would hand over my wallet with absolutely no resistance. I don't believe in leaving my welfare in the mercy of a thug so that's why it would be so hard for me to hand my wallet over and "hope" for the best. Unfortunately, however, I have to take into consideration that this may be the only option I have. I also know, on the other hand, that even if I duck and am injured, I may be so hoped up on adrenalin that I could fight irrespective of my injury - assuming I didn't take a direct hit in the face. Adrenalin plays a lot into these scenarios and its hardly ever mentioned - at least in the posts I have read so far. My will to live may be greater than his will to mug some guy he doesn't know for a few dollars. Just like the docs say in medicine, prevention is more valuable than the cure - or something like that. The point being, always be aware of your surroundings and do all that you can to avoid from ever being in the situation like this to begin with. This isn't an attempt to circumnavigate the post but to give some additional thoughts to weigh in on that may save someone's life someday.

  7. #36
    Member Array big country's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Already practice this with snap caps, partner is to try and pull the trigger and shoot me as soon as he perceives movement, got it down to the point where I've already got control of his wrist before I hear the pop.

    But then again i've been doing this for over 6 years and speed has always been my strength :)
    Hold on a minute...are you telling me that you have someone point a working firearm at your head and try to pull the trigger? Snap caps or not that is reckless and breaks nearly all of the gun safety rules. I truly hope I read your post incorrectly.

  8. #37
    Member Array Yeti's Avatar
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    Wow !
    I'm impressed !
    Now think of this , most people that are robbing you at gun point have been locked up ,
    guess what they train in prison ! Not only lift weights but , but have the oppurnity to discuss how to rob you blind at gun point , guess who taught the class ...
    At minimum they are desperate and most likely trained at getting there arse beat in the " hood"
    you have training with who ?
    That's right this cat has had his arse whipped from moms dads , his brother , uncle , and almost every body in the hood !

    I can not belive I did not hear , your only advantige is your edicuation and will !

  9. #38
    Member Array Yeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Blading is secondary with the gun pointed at your head. You can move your head quicker than you can blade your body.
    Not sure if I included it, but I've done it for real.
    It could come down to attributes, you have to see and react faster than I can move.


    if you have done it state side I wanna read about it !
    It's not everyday I see hear read a gun reversial !

    Sorry .. It's the interwebz man ,
    Last edited by HotGuns; July 19th, 2010 at 01:37 AM. Reason: personal attack

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It happened many years ago, but it did happen. I don't know if I still have the article in my scrap book.
    You can want all you want, doesn't mean you will get what you want.
    "gun reversial" ???
    Mine was to draw against a gun in my face.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    There are still so many variables, it's really unanswerable.

    There was a story about a guy riding a bicycle in the late evening for exercise, and someone did exactly what you describe. He began asking the guy why he needed the money and how there were people who would help if he needed it, and would be glad to help him. Long story short, he convinced him to let him buy him dinner and talk..... talk about "salesmanship".
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    "....your only advantige is your edicuation and will ! "- Yeti

    Please expound.
    1) education- educated in what exactly at this moment of being robbed?
    a. self awareness,
    b. self defense,
    c. cqb w firearms/knives/improvised weapons?
    d. hs diploma/college/masters

    2) will- to do what, again at this very moment you've described?
    a. to live
    b. comply completely
    c. comply to a certain "line in the sand"
    d. do 'whatever' it takes to survive?

    I follow you on your thoughts of the thug's incarceration education, as it were. Father was detention/leo. Lotsa' good stuff from him. Just a little unclear as your statement of 'education and will' is a tad vague. Most people have a plan. To paraphrase Mike Tyson, "everybody has a plan till they get hit in the mouth". That's why being 'fluid' in decision making is critical. Each situation is so very different. By the numbers, most robberies will end with you being robbed and the thug skating out. Therefore, strictly by the numbers, it makes more sense to comply. Some folks were successful in resisting, some died trying. Too many variables to really ever say till the gun is in your face.

    Looking foreward to your response,

    dan

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big country View Post
    Hold on a minute...are you telling me that you have someone point a working firearm at your head and try to pull the trigger? Snap caps or not that is reckless and breaks nearly all of the gun safety rules. I truly hope I read your post incorrectly.
    Not a real firearm, a plastic practice one with caps that make a bang sound, just to test reaction time and to work with something that feels like a real pistol.
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  14. #43
    Member Array Yeti's Avatar
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    "Please expound."
    yes , all of the above # 1,a,b,cd, and even e and f

    "2) will- to do what, again at this very moment you've described?"
    again yes to all - will to live i asume would take a huge part in your re actions in a situation that is life threatening


    "'education and will' is a tad vague" its not a black and white world , that plus the fact im usually on an i phone and ham fisted gives me the need to keep it short and sweet ! not to mention the gramer and spelling errors -


    Too many variables to really ever say till the gun is in your face. - however makes for an interesting read most of the time , reading this section is always fun and and usually makes me think


    in proposing the scenario i had nor still have no answer , nor most likely never will , i carry at 4:00 !

  15. #44
    Member Array Yeti's Avatar
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    "Please expound."
    yes , all of the above # 1,a,b,cd, and even e and f

    "2) will- to do what, again at this very moment you've described?"
    again yes to all - will to live i asume would take a huge part in your re actions in a situation that is life threatening


    "'education and will' is a tad vague" its not a black and white world , that plus the fact im usually on an i phone and ham fisted gives me the need to keep it short and sweet ! not to mention the gramer and spelling errors -


    Too many variables to really ever say till the gun is in your face. - however makes for an interesting read most of the time , reading this section is always fun and and usually makes me think


    in proposing the scenario i had nor still have no answer , nor most likely never will , i carry at 4:00 !

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Cool.
    I just hate the written (texted) word as the little nuances are lost. Yeah, this is always educational, and at times entertaining.

    Was the video I posted in my first response close to the situation you were attempting to set up?

    dan

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