Advancing with a knife
This is a discussion on Advancing with a knife within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Extremely dangerous, and if you pull your weapon and he continues to advance with the knife he is obviously deranged, drugged, or other wise a ...
June 21st, 2006 02:04 PM
A guy with a knife at 8 feet is
Extremely dangerous, and if you pull your weapon and he continues to advance with the knife he is obviously deranged, drugged, or other wise a complete menace. If he gets closer to you, then you are likely in trouble, in fact you are probably already in big trouble. I hate to quote action movies, but in the immortal words of Wesley Snipes Blade character, "If you are going to survive You better learn to pull the trigger!" The bad guy showed his hand when he pulled the knife, if he doesn't leave when you pull your gun he is going to hurt you bad. His actions certainly speak louder than his words. So at that point take a deep breath, let it out, aim COM, and squeeze the trigger! Repeat as necessary until the threat is removed.
There are only 2 people I trust in this world and you ain't one of'em!
June 22nd, 2006 03:18 PM
I took a self defence and the law course that was taught by an ex-cop and he said if a person with a knife that looks like they know what they are doing is with-in the 21' mark shoot to slide lock, reload and shoot some more if needed. A knife at contact distance can be more lethal than a gun.
June 22nd, 2006 03:24 PM
...call 911 to come clean up the mess
"Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.
"...be water, my friend."
June 22nd, 2006 04:12 PM
I'll Second that!
That is one of the reasons I try to tell people who don't carry one in the pipe to change their ways. I'd be willing to bet the farm that at arms length I could probably place at least 3 fatal wounds to your torso with a knife before you can even finish your draw much less racking the slide if it's not loaded.
Originally Posted by gotammo
June 22nd, 2006 04:22 PM
I am not sure how a person can tell that a person with a knife may "know what they doing" by looking at them. I am fairly certain a person who does not "know what they are doing" with a knife can kill or seriously injure you with a knife.
Originally Posted by gotammo
I took a self defence and the law course that was taught by an ex-cop and he said if a person with a knife that looks like they know what they are doing is with-in the 21' mark shoot to slide lock, reload and shoot some more if needed.
If you have a knife and have given me the impression, either verbally or non-verbally, that you intend to use it, you get treated the same.
June 22nd, 2006 07:32 PM
Lots of good comments here, the biggie is someone closer than 21' with a knife can kill you before you can stop them with a gun, they can close that distance very fast, and 8' you only hope is to throw it into reverse now and put distance between you and them, at the very minimum keep the 8' there or best make it 21' all the while keeping a eye on them and looking for the other BG. A very large part of CCW is paying attention to your surroundings and what is going on, and if you let someone with a knife get that close before you figured out what was going on SHAME ON YOU and I hope your health insurance is good and paid up.
"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
June 22nd, 2006 08:13 PM
dont bring a knife to a gunfight
If BG was still advancing on a drawn gun then he is off his rocker and I need to put him down before he does so to me. Despite how calm and reasuring(sp?) he is trying to be he obviously is not within reason. 8' is too close. If I try to run he can still lunge at me if he is quick enough.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
June 22nd, 2006 08:17 PM
The joy of being close . . .
Ditto, SheldonJ -- Shame on you if you let the assailant get that close with you having no clue. We do tend to fall back upon training, if we got enough of it. To recall a bit of it that I got in a past life:
1) Far ambush -- Cover, fire & maneuver
2) Close ambush -- Attack, with speed and violence, directly at the attackers.
Your options are very limited when it's up close and personal. A determined assault of your own may be the only way to save your life.
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
June 22nd, 2006 08:42 PM
your description, of the perp talking, etc... - I'd assume he's trying to disrupt my ooda loop.
classic tactic of an attacker.
I'd concentrate on my ooda (observe, orient, decide, act)... draw on him; warn him; any advancement and he's shot. period.
June 22nd, 2006 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by rodc13
We must have grown up in the same neighborhood amongst the same wolves & wild dogs.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
June 22nd, 2006 11:04 PM
I'll call 911 after BG goes down...
or leaves area after I present...
it only takes a blink to move from index to trigger all the way back...
(been there, done that.....)
June 23rd, 2006 01:01 AM
typically someone who knows how to use a knife will not be holding in the Bates Motel stabbing position, loose grip, tossing from one hand to another / toying with it.
They will be holding in a manner that is for slashing gripped in the hand so the blade is along the forearm to cut in a punching motion or zig zag patern, gripped with the thumb on the spine of the knife for slashing and thrusting.
June 23rd, 2006 04:19 AM
At 8 feet, 4 steps max to reach you. He won't be repeating "its ok, I dont want to hurt you, I just want your money." He won't have time to say it more than once.
what would you do if someone drew a knife but was a little ways from you...say 8'.
They kept walking towards you but with the knife down and kept saying reasuring phrases like...its ok, I dont want to hurt you, I just want your money.
Why, say it to yourself and walk, see the distance you are covering in that one sentence? You have move that 8 feet, there will be no time for even one repeat performance of the phrase.
If you try to move laterally, he'll track you if his intentions are just that when he is close enough. If he sees you move back or laterally, he can charge you. If he does that, you won't have time to pull the gun and shoot.
If he does not charge you when you move back or laterally, he is intimidating, and probably does not intend to use the knife, only to show it to get you to comply with some demand.
There are those who will intimidate and not ever use it unless they are forced to, and those who will easily use it anytime. The one who will use it, will rush you if he sees you going for a weapon and realizes you are not a sheeple in all likelyhood.
The only chance you have at 8 feet is to have some serious edged weapons defensive skills, keep him at least at arms reach outside your inner circle and go from there initially.
If he attacks, the fight it on H2H, the gun will not be a viable option until you can create enough time and distance to do so. As the scenario started with his presenting at 8 feet, time and distance are not enough to do anything but have the skills to create it if he is the commited type above.
To think otherwise will be a rude awakening for most. It's not pretty but it is the way it is going to be. You'll either have the skills to move against him if he is only the threatening type and waves it near you to intimidate as he gets to your inner circle or you'll be in the fight of your life if he is committed and you attempt to move away from him, showing you are going to arm yourself.
Real predators do not allow you an opportunity to draw on them when they are closing at that range.
June 24th, 2006 01:14 AM
This is a situation where you are in deep poo-doo. You are danged if you do and 9 times out of 10 danged if you don't. As Brownie stated above, the only chance you have is to have serious H2H skills.
Unfortunately, I am a fat ex-jock that will probaly never train in H2H martial arts. In this situation, I would make lateral steps, probaly use my weak arm to hope fully block him from stabbing anything vital. If he slashes that arm then so be it, hopefully he doesn't hit a big bleeder or tendon. Strong arm draws and and I literally have to shoot from the hip. Hopefully my rounds have found their mark and although I may be wounded, he is dead or is out of fighting commision.
Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!
June 24th, 2006 01:25 AM
Even then you are likely to take a good cut. But I'd take the training which may allow a better outcome of one cut and take him to grappling and out that way than take several defensive wound cuts while I'm trying to go for the gun.
Theres a time for H2H and a time to draw and fire. Without time and distance, you may not even get the gun out but have to use that hand/arm as well to prevent serious injury or death.
8 feet, it's going to be H2H, going for the gun will be like relying on it like a crutch, and there is no guarantee you'll be able to get to it. If that is all you have, you have to go with it, of course, but it sure is not a position to be in without some H2H knowledge.
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