Gunpoint in the driveway - Page 4

Gunpoint in the driveway

This is a discussion on Gunpoint in the driveway within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; BG brandishing weapon, "Yo Dude, what's up?" me, "Time's up!" BG goes thump in the night....

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    BG brandishing weapon, "Yo Dude, what's up?"

    me, "Time's up!"

    BG goes thump in the night.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    He gave you a short view of the weapon so that the threat was there but neighbors wouldn't see him pointing it at you and call 911.

    Your reaction should be:

    BANG BANG BANG (Repeat as necessary)

    Take cover.

    Scan for other threats.

    Call 911.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  3. #48
    Member Array arffdog875's Avatar
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    If he flashed a gun at me I would consider that a threat to my life and my family, I would STOP the threat, call 911!!! I am NOT an LEO, I am not going to act like I am...he is either dying or complying...get away from me now AND DON'T come back! If he runs away, fine, I will be a good witness, if he goes for his gun...he dies where he stands.
    God Bless the troops...especially the snipers!
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  4. #49
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    If someone whom I do not know, approaches to me while flashing a gun at me, I'm certainly going to be in fear of my safety. I'm certainly not going to blow it off and keep going about my business, something is about to go down and it's not him inviting me to a tea party.

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsms View Post
    AZ Law on defensive display:

    "13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition
    A. THE DEFENSIVE DISPLAY OF A FIREARM BY A PERSON AGAINST ANOTHER IS
    JUSTIFIED WHEN AND TO THE EXTENT A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD BELIEVE THAT PHYSICAL FORCE IS IMMEDIATELY NECESSARY TO PROTECT HIMSELF AGAINST THE USE OR ATTEMPTED USE OF UNLAWFUL PHYSICAL FORCE OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE.

    B. THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO A PERSON WHO:
    1. INTENTIONALLY PROVOKES ANOTHER PERSON TO USE OR ATTEMPT TO USE UNLAWFUL PHYSICAL FORCE.
    2. USES A FIREARM DURING THE COMMISSION OF A SERIOUS OFFENSE AS DEFINED IN SECTION 13-706 OR VIOLENT CRIME AS DEFINED IN SECTION 13-901.03.
    C. THIS SECTION DOES NOT REQUIRE THE DEFENSIVE DISPLAY OF A FIREARM BEFORE THE USE OF PHYSICAL FORCE OR THE THREAT OF PHYSICAL FORCE BY A PERSON WHO IS OTHERWISE JUSTIFIED IN THE USE OR THREATENED USE OF PHYSICAL FORCE.
    D. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "DEFENSIVE DISPLAY OF A FIREARM" INCLUDES:
    1. VERBALLY INFORMING ANOTHER PERSON THAT THE PERSON POSSESSES OR HAS AVAILABLE A FIREARM.
    2. EXPOSING OR DISPLAYING A FIREARM IN A MANNER THAT A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD UNDERSTAND WAS MEANT TO PROTECT THE PERSON AGAINST ANOTHER'S USE OR ATTEMPTED USE OF UNLAWFUL PHYSICAL FORCE OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE.
    3. PLACING THE PERSON'S HAND ON A FIREARM WHILE THE FIREARM IS CONTAINED IN A HOLSTER, POCKET, PURSE OR OTHER MEANS OF CONTAINMENT OR TRANSPORT."

    However, flashing - as in revealing a gun - is not the same as defensive display. Since open carry is legal in Arizona, doing something that reveals you have a gun on your body is not brandishing unless it is intended to intimidate. I would expect the BG's lawyers, after reviewing the neighbor's video, to either deny he revealed a gun to the OP or to argue it was accidental - he was just scratching his tummy, etc. If he then drops his shirt and covers the gun - which might explain why he doesn't draw it in response to your draw - then exactly how is he threatening your life?

    Maybe he is. The 8 guys who started to surround me 30 years ago didn't say a word...frankly, they didn't need to. They were not going to surround me and sing Kum-by-ah. Maybe that is the case in the OP scenario. But for those who plan to pull and shoot, or who plan to order the guy to the ground and restrain him...you'd better have something stronger in your defense than "I was scared". And the witnesses may tell a very different story, as would the video if a neighbor taped it.

    There aren't right answers in these scenarios, just things to think about before you find yourself in them.
    Well your answer of taking your total attention off of someone tresspassing on your property and who has brandished a weapon, is definitely a wrong response.
    I sure wouldn't take my eyes off of him and continue unloading groceries. I would ask him what he wanted, and tell him whatever it was he needed to look somewhere else. I would watch him the entire time, especially his hands
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.
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  6. #51
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegear234 View Post
    I'm sorry but that is yet again not how it works. You cannot display a weapon in a threatening manor unless in self defense and even then in a lot of states you can still be canned for pulling out your piece. Threatening someone with a weapon who has done nothing out of the way to cause you to be in fear of your life is illegal and is NOT how Arizona's law operates. Thank you.
    Can you flash your gun on your own property, after a TRESSPASSER has flashed his gun at you?
    Last edited by Bubbiesdad; July 21st, 2010 at 08:26 PM.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.
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  7. #52
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    profanity??

    Hey Dude,, Whats up?? I went back several times,, I really didn't see any profantity? Did I miss it?

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tradermike69 View Post
    Hey Dude,, Whats up?? I went back several times,, I really didn't see any profantity? Did I miss it?
    Edited by moderator.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.
    Jeff Cooper

  9. #54
    Member Array Back 40's Avatar
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    i have read all of the posts and I have to agree, get off the X and defend my self and family. I can say that i am not too interested in talking with this guy. All that needs to be said has already been said. He has shown that he is not there to be friends and the bradishing of the gun shows that he has the means and intent to hurt me. This all leads up to a vicious and immediate attack as possible. I would attack and wouldnt stop untill the threat is eliminated or I am going to the bright light in the sky. Anything else you are at the mercy of you and your families potential murder.

  10. #55
    Member Array bsms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    Well your answer of taking your total attention off of someone tresspassing on your property and who has brandished a weapon, is definitely a wrong response.
    I sure wouldn't take my eyes off of him and continue unloading groceries. I would ask him what he wanted, and tell him whatever it was he needed to look somewhere else. I would watch him the entire time, especially his hands
    Actually, my initial response was "Nod and continue to unload the car." In multiple following posts, I made other and better suggestions...but I wasn't too far wrong on my first. Particularly for a quick response as I was leaving my house. I didn't say to ignore him entirely, but I wouldn't either scream with fear or whip out a gun and shoot him dead. Continuing to unload the car would give you a chance to put the car between you and him, which would be a much better place to be if you pull your gun and shoot - you can shoot, drop behind cover, and prepare to shoot again. And if you pull your gun but don't shoot, while 90% of your body is concealed or covered by your car as you kneel & point? You would now be better prepared and his best option would be to turn and run.

    That said, I like your response of "I would ask him what he wanted, and tell him whatever it was he needed to look somewhere else. I would watch him the entire time, especially his hands" better than my own. Just move to place the car between you while talking...

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    Edited by moderator.
    I find that funny because I never put profanity in my post in the first place. I put Asterisks in place of profanity, LOL....
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  12. #57
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    I would suggest to those that might want to "hold" him for the police, let him know that if you see ANY movement or anybody else coming towards you that he would be having worse night than he already was, & hopefully he would "call out" to them to go away if there was anybody else......

    just a thought, not that I would try to hold him.....dunno
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

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    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragman View Post
    Scary thing is If I step out of my vehicle letting my parents out and I am aproached by someone in a threatening manor that shows they are armed I am gonna defend my life. I am kinda trapped by the car and car door and this person who I don't know if they are alone is armed and means to do me harm. I can't say for sure but if when I draw is the BG does anything but throw his hands up I am probably gonna shoot. if he gives up and I haven't shot I am having my parents call 911 while I back myself into a possition that I can see the BG and protect my backside incase he has backup.
    What other things might he do, besides put up his hands? Many things are possible. But if he doesnt draw his weapon and you've shot him, then in most states at least, you are going to face an uphill battle in court arent you?

    Not critisizing....as a woman, all he'd have to do is **lunge at me and he'd get shot, but I also have disparity of force on my side. However as long as he didnt move for his gun and made no other threatening moves (& hopefully was reversing direction)...I wouldnt shoot. Not sure I'd have legal grounds.


    **That was just one example.. Knowlege of Tueller Drill supports the fact that that endangers anyone, not just a woman and is separate from disparity of force.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsms View Post
    All he did was flash a gun? And he didn't pull it?

    Nod and continue to unload the car. He has established his 'power', but hasn't threatened you yet. If you go for your gun, he's likely to go for his and you'll be trading shots at 6 feet - a great way for both of you to die. And even if it goes well...if he's a gang member, you have probably just marked your parent's house for revenge. Just a thought.
    This is an interesting scenario for me.

    If he flashes (brandishes) a gun, IMO he is an immediate lethal threat...I will draw my weapon. No matter if he intends to kill me or not, if he feels the need to brandish when he approaches me....his intentions are dangerous, period. And any crime committed with a gun is a felony (which I can also draw and shoot to prevent.)

    It's also a good example of when a person might choose to draw their weapon and not immediately shoot. Some posters here frequently say they will not draw their weapon without using it. Would they support that in this scenario?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsms View Post
    All he did was flash a gun? And he didn't pull it?

    Nod and continue to unload the car. He has established his 'power', but hasn't threatened you yet. If you go for your gun, he's likely to go for his and you'll be trading shots at 6 feet - a great way for both of you to die. And even if it goes well...if he's a gang member, you have probably just marked your parent's house for revenge. Just a thought.
    Well then why is he there if not to commit a crime? He is going to do something...are you going to wait until he gets closer? Wait to see what he wants? You can ask that after you have your gun trained at his chest.

    My personal assessment would be that I am in danger, not that I would be safer to just let him carry on and hope he didnt hurt me. Those are very poor odds IMO.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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