Gunpoint in the driveway

[kobyashi]

You are driving to your parents home, you are arriving around... 10 PM. it is a residential area on the outskirts of a city so there are lots of other homes and lots of other cars parked about the street.

You pull into their driveway, get out and because you are always checking your six you see someone walking up your parents driveway. As you turn to face them you keep your right hand(or w/e you gun side is) at your side and the stranger says

"Yo Dude whats up?" as he lifts his shirt and flashes a weapon in his waistband. At this point you already draw as he flashes you and you order him down on his knees. You don't know if he has friends, or who he is, your parents are inside. you are alone outside, what do you do?

hmmmmm? Tricky Situation. If the person does comply with the command you are in a tough spot. You now have to split your attention between him and dialing 911 all while under duress.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[LongRider]

I live a fairly normal life, so I doubt I have your vast experience with street thugs drawing weapons on you

Exactly, not what I would call vast experience but did I grow up and lived in a.... different environment than yours. I've answered the OP's question based upon my experience. Others have tried to share their experience and knowledge, so you don't need to learn the hard way. As some have. Yet it seems that your need to be right exceeds your desire to learn another perspective. Or maybe you think that whitebread preconceptions are somehow relevant.

it seems REASONABLE to me that someone who is planning on using a gun, draws it.

That is the entire point. You assume this thug is reasonable or thinks like you do. Your assumption on both counts is incorrect. He is a mad dog sociopath who derives great satisfaction pleasure from harming others. Doing harm builds his self esteem. He is proud of his ability to intimidate and hurt people. To the degree that causing you suffering is orgasmic to him. Literally. When he is with a woman visualizing your blood and screaming agony is what gets him off. Are you familiar with that kind of mind set? If not, than what you think is reasonable is irrelevant.

Now lets get back to what the OP in fact said. The thug approaches and makes his threat i.e. lifts his shirt revealing a gun. This is an armed robbery, this is not this creeps first offense he is a predator of the vulture jackal variety not a lion, a bully not a warrior. He lives on intimidation, threats. He is there to take what he wants from me, not do battle. That is the LAST thing he wants or needs, He has picked me as prey, someone he has decided is weaker than he. A sick, cowardly, disabled or otherwise vulnerable victim. A target He EXPECTS compliance from, otherwise he would have never ever have approached me.

He assumes I am intimidated fearful, he does not expect any other response, his gun is in his pants Mexican carried. He has not drawn his gun, YET. He has let me know that he is willing to kill or harm me, has the apparent ability to do so and has taken substantial steps towards doing that.
Now is the time to act.

In the scenario presented, he lifted his shirt but did not draw. I live a fairly normal life, so I doubt I have your vast experience with street thugs drawing weapons on you, but it seems REASONABLE to me that someone who is planning on using a gun, draws it. If it is in his pants, you might just deck him if you have the size and ability to do so. Or pull a knife or ................
Do something he doesn't expect. Throw the luggage in your hand at him.......
spitting in his face while taking a step towards him........

Seriously?
Per the scenario presented,

At this point you already draw as he flashes you and you order him down on his knees.

A violent felon has threatened me with a gun, I have the drop on him yelling at him to get on his knees. Your suggestion is to than holster my gun, run up on him. Close the distance between him and
Punch him?
Spit on him?
Draw a knife on him?
Really? Unbelievable!!!
I don't bring spit to a gun fight
I don't bring luggage to a gun fight
I don't bring fists to a gun fight
I don't bring knives to a gun fight

or gun of your own..

Isn't that what I have been saying? That as I was yelling for him to get on his knee's I'd be pumping rounds into him center of mass to the best of my abilities. That the ONLY thing that would stop me from doing so, would be him dropping to the ground at the sight of my gun, surrendering before I squeeze off a round. I agree with you about doing the unexpected. He does not expect me to shoot him or he would not be trying to rob me. I also agree about getting off the X while shooting him.
An aside I carry right above my rear pocket right above my wallet, when most anyone approaches me I greet them bladed. In part because, a robber seeing my hand go to my rear pocket will most likely assume I am getting my wallet. Not a .45 I intend to do the unexpected. Punch .45 holes in is chest.

I must have missed the posts where people suggested getting on their knees and begging for mercy.

That sir, is the exactly what anyone who submits or complies to these creeps are doing. Trusting their lives to the good will or mercy of rabid dogs.

[LongRider]

Florida has that.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...20032#0776.032

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force,

Actually I do not see a similarity. Most all if not all states have statues that say you can not be convicted of a crime for a SD shooting. That is vastly different than saying that the state of Florida will pick up the tab for your defense if you get charged. People get charged for self defense shootings all the time, and need to PROVE it was self defense.

The difference is in Washington state; once you have proven self defense, the state will pay all your attorney fees, expert testimony fees and all costs associated with your defense. The statute you quoted does not say Florida does that.

[oakchas]

You are driving to your parents home, you are arriving around... 10 PM. it is a residential area on the outskirts of a city so there are lots of other homes and lots of other cars parked about the street.

You pull into their driveway, get out and because you are always checking your six you see someone walking up your parents driveway. As you turn to face them you keep your right hand(or w/e you gun side is) at your side and the stranger says

"Yo Dude whats up?" as he lifts his shirt and flashes a weapon in his waistband. At this point you already draw as he flashes you and you order him down on his knees. You don't know if he has friends, or who he is, your parents are inside. you are alone outside, what do you do?

After carefully reading the entire post and all replies,

This is my response:

In an off handed, casual (everybody flashes their guns to me in greeting, "I seen this everyday") tone of voice... "Yo, bro... Nice peashooter/pigsticker (weapon per OP) there... But I really prefer my Desert Eagle .50.... Whadda ya think?" While pointing mine in his face.

I don't have a desert eagle, but this dipstick wouldn't know that from an airsoft by looking at the barrel end.

I would not order him (or is it "them" as in the OP?) to his knees... But, the OP says I have done that. (OP says I don't know if he has friends... but says "them")... I assume he has friends. If he complies to the order to his knees, I assume his friends are either going to split and leave him to his own devices, or are already sneaking up on me. I am assuming the former... as most of these cowards send in the bravest/stupidest as the front line.

I am asking him/them, in their own vernacular, to get off the property and move along. OP indicates them coming up my parent's drive... not on the sidewalk, no gusty winds "brandishing" for him (He conciously "lifts his shirt and flashes a weapon in his waistband"). The last time that happened to someone I know, they were beaten, stabbed twice and left for dead (it was one of my first posts here).

As to the shootout at 6 feet... well statistically, professionals don't succeed but about 25% or less of the time in gunfights with badguys at 6 feet... and I'm not saying I'm better or even as good as any LEO out there... but I've probably shot a lot more than this stinkwad, my odds are better than his.

The original post doesn't give me much to work with as far as particulars. My response is equaly as vague, and successful.

[ZombieShoot]

Actually I do not see a similarity. Most all if not all states have statues that say you can not be convicted of a crime for a SD shooting. That is vastly different than saying that the state of Florida will pick up the tab for your defense if you get charged. People get charged for self defense shootings all the time, and need to PROVE it was self defense.

The difference is in Washington state; once you have proven self defense, the state will pay all your attorney fees, expert testimony fees and all costs associated with your defense. The statute you quoted does not say Florida does that.

Except that wasn't what I was replying too. Nor did I say the State of Florida would pick up the tab. There is no tab to pick up in Florida. You can't be sued over a shooting if it is justified. No lawyer with an ounce of brains would try.

I was responding to this from 9MMare: "And some states have an even better one....if the police do not charge you, you cannot be civilly sued, period. Me...I like that one."

She was saying some states have a better law then the Washington one where the state of Washington picks up your tab. Some states have laws where you can't be sued over a justified shooting.

That's why I pointed out Florida which has just such a law.

[ZombieShoot]

After carefully reading the entire post and all replies,

This is my response:

In an off handed, casual (everybody flashes their guns to me in greeting, "I seen this everyday") tone of voice... "Yo, bro... Nice peashooter/pigsticker (weapon per OP) there... But I really prefer my Desert Eagle .50.... Whadda ya think?" While pointing mine in his face.

I don't have a desert eagle, but this dipstick wouldn't know that from an airsoft by looking at the barrel end.

Yeah........

You might want to reconsider doing such a thing. If he calls your bluff he's got the real thing and you don't.

I would not order him (or is it "them" as in the OP?) to his knees... But, the OP says I have done that. (OP says I don't know if he has friends... but says "them")... I assume he has friends. If he complies to the order to his knees, I assume his friends are either going to split and leave him to his own devices, or are already sneaking up on me. I am assuming the former... as most of these cowards send in the bravest/stupidest as the front line.

You really shouldn't be pointing an airsoft in this situation. Your assumption may get you killed.

If the guys partners see you pull a gun but not shoot it they may decide to take a shot at you to rescue the guy.

As to the shootout at 6 feet... well statistically, professionals don't succeed but about 25% or less of the time in gunfights with badguys at 6 feet... and I'm not saying I'm better or even as good as any LEO out there... but I've probably shot a lot more than this stinkwad, my odds are better than his.

Bad guys practice a lot more then you think.

http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...op_killers.asp

The original post doesn't give me much to work with as far as particulars. My response is equaly as vague, and successful.

If you're going to go pointing a weapon in some thugs face use the real thing.

[9MMare]

In an off handed, casual (everybody flashes their guns to me in greeting, "I seen this everyday") tone of voice... "Yo, bro... Nice peashooter/pigsticker (weapon per OP) there... But I really prefer my Desert Eagle .50.... Whadda ya think?" While pointing mine in his face.

I don't have a desert eagle, but this dipstick wouldn't know that from an airsoft by looking at the barrel end.

.

Why would you have an airsoft pistol on your person? Do you normally carry one on you? If so, why?

[oakchas]

Zombie-9MMare...

I do not carry an airsoft... I don't even own one...

My point is that the idiot coming up the driveway would not know the difference between an airsoft and any real gun... let alone a DE.50.

And with a gun in his face=resistance upon which he was not counting, he's probably wet his own self already.

"oh gosh no, I woudn't ever point my airsoft at anybody, mom and dad... that wouldn't be safe."

I'm sure this forum has had it's share of 15 YO airsoft wannabes...
But I'm equally certain that they don't answer posts with

"After carefully reading the entire post and all replies,

This is my response"


More like "Yo Yo man --- I bus' a cap in his sorry face, him liftin his shirt on me showin me his kitchen knife (or Jiminezzz). He dead right there, and I callin the amberlamps."

[oakchas]

Yeah........




Bad guys practice a lot more then you think.

http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...op_killers.asp

Hmmm... I find that link interesting... (I paraphrase because the site linked does not allow copy/paste quoting) 'many offenders carrying weapons at 9-12 years of age... with an average age of 17... And 40% of those had formal training primarily from the military...'

So our military is training 'em young now a days... eh?

Maybe they're training 'em with airsofts... ya think?

[steelhawk]

There aren't that many options.

1. Scream and run.
2. Comply and give him what he wants.
3. Attempt to overpower him.
4. Draw your gun and tell him to drop his.
5. Draw and fire.

Scream and run may work, but it may not.
Giving him what he wants and hoping he goes away may work, but it may not. I don't carry a gun so I can be a victim.
If you are a fighter attacking might work, but he might be better and then you lose.
If you draw your gun and give warning, he may surrender or run, but there may be time for the BG to move and draw his, with a gunfight resulting. You could get shot.

Draw and fire while his gun is still in the waist band gives you the edge.

[Cabreco]

Not being a John Wayne or anything of the sort, but I can't see drawing my weapon to order a BG to the ground.
If I feel it necessary to draw my weapon it means my life is threatened. If I draw I will shoot and I will shoot 3 or 4 rapid rounds.
Drawing my weapon to (counter) threaten a BG compromises your surprise advantage.
The only consideration would be if he approaches me gun drawn. It would be foolish to even try to fast draw then.
The thought process then would be to find a diversion or out to be able to defend myself.
I will gladly deal with the legal ramifications afterward since dead I would not have to.

[BugDude]

Place my hand on my CCW as I try to back away putting the car between us as best I can while expressing my desire for no trouble. Assess as it unfolds and act accordingly. If he reaches towards his weapon during any of this, again, act accordingly. In doing this, I have complied with my State's law in that I have:

1) Not instigated or escalated
2) Expressed my desire for peace
3) Retreated as far as possible
4) Defended myself in a commensurate level to the threat

[obxned]

Wether Mr. Gonlin is there to rob, murder, or carjack, he shown the means and intent. I don't have a safe way to disarm him, and I can't let him walk away while armed - he may shoot me just because he did't get what he wanted. That pretty well limits my options.

[TedBeau]

OK. I'll play devils advicate here. No matter what your reaction was, here's what happens after the police arrive. You parents come out of the house to see what all the commotion is about. The see the guy prone on the ground, (maybe you with your foot to his neck) and your gun pointed at him.
The ask, "Why are you threating our new neighbor?"
You then find out that they had told him that you were coming over that night, you had your CCW and always carried, and told him he should come over and meet you and show you his new gun he has been bragging about. Now the big question is, is he going to have you charged with assualt? I guess you could trade him dropping the brandishing charge agaist him for him dropping the assault charge, if your lucky.

I'm not saying he was not wrong in what he did, but I think I've seen more unlikely scenarios then this one posted here.

[joecs1]

You pull up your shirt to display a gun and I'm thinking you are going to draw and shoot me,I will act accordingly,911,I just had a guy threatened me with a gun,I need help,send a ambulance

How is he going to shoot you? unless you are in his shorts? If his gun is still in his waistband you will be visiting the local DA!