Would you have pulled your firearm?

This is a discussion on Would you have pulled your firearm? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by bladenbullet you would be best to avoid his bike unless he is threatening you with it...you might just turn the event into ...

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Thread: Would you have pulled your firearm?

  1. #31
    Member Array bsms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you would be best to avoid his bike unless he is threatening you with it...you might just turn the event into an accident scene that your insurance company and the police wont be fond of...seeking an escape route is much more responsible and involves less legalities....what looks good in movies and dreams doesnt usually work out quite so well in real life...
    I started off my comment with "If I couldn't drive around the motorcycle..." - so an escape route isn't an option. I continued with "If he is about to attack me with a club or something to break the window...my 4000 lb vehicle hits his 500 lb bike as hard as I can arrange it..."

    Neither insurance nor the cops would blink an eye. If he uses his bike to facilitate his attack - which he is doing when he blocks my escape route with it - then I have every right to smash his bike and escape from physical assault: "...he is about to attack me with a club...". At that point, most states allow me to use deadly force to protect myself from being clubbed. If I had any doubt about being able to clear an escape route with my car, I could and would use a gun to prevent getting my head caved in. I believe in showing great restraint in using a gun, but I wouldn't carry if I wasn't willing to save my life with one.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsms View Post
    I started off my comment with "If I couldn't drive around the motorcycle..." - so an escape route isn't an option. I continued with "If he is about to attack me with a club or something to break the window...my 4000 lb vehicle hits his 500 lb bike as hard as I can arrange it..."

    Neither insurance nor the cops would blink an eye. If he uses his bike to facilitate his attack - which he is doing when he blocks my escape route with it - then I have every right to smash his bike and escape from physical assault: "...he is about to attack me with a club...". At that point, most states allow me to use deadly force to protect myself from being clubbed. If I had any doubt about being able to clear an escape route with my car, I could and would use a gun to prevent getting my head caved in. I believe in showing great restraint in using a gun, but I wouldn't carry if I wasn't willing to save my life with one.
    i'm following you now....thanks for pointing that out...i was thinking you were using the motorcycle to make a point...

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMNMIKE View Post
    She was already turned into the street and the guy on the bike was trying to beat her in position going in on her blind spot. She layed the horn when he tried to overtake her and he slowed down right in front of her vehicle.
    She was making a left turn as her light was green and a motorcyclist had a yield sign and went straight out and tried to beat her.
    See I read the OP that the wife was turning left at a light, and the motor cycle was on another side of the intersection with a yield sign.
    He did say she was making a left turn at a light, not driving down the street.
    Yes, the confrontation might have happend further down the street, but simply seeing that he was going to run it and waiting at the light -allowing him to do whatever made him feel macho - would have totally avoided the whole down the road situation - which was the point of my post.
    If you don't feel like getting into a wreck and/or bad situation today, drive defensively. My mom always said that being right wasn't worth ruining your car over.
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    If a horn is used in the appropriate manner which it was designed... which is to warn fellow motorists of your presence where they may not have seen you, or gotten too close, should be in no way construed as to be escalating a confrontation.

    .
    The cyclist was already in front of her. There was no need to advise him of her presence. (UNless she wanted to warn him before she ran him over).

    Once there is no danger in a situation...reckless or accidentally careless person is in front of you or out of the way....there is no reason to alert them to your presence....only your disapproval.

    If someone continues to drive dangerously...call 911. I've read here about people who honked and corralled other drivers to 'let them know they were driving dangerously'. IMO, that's a one in a million thing...and the odds of them taking it positiviely even less. Yes, it does happen...but not much. And any mishaps that happed because of your actions will fall on you, legally.
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  6. #35
    Member Array ItsMyRight2's Avatar
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    I would say no she wasn't justified.The man didn't brandish a weapon and she was in safe cover of her vehicle. Now if guy was banging on window and trying to enter vehicle than thats a different story. I feel she really could of escalated the situation by brandishing. What if guy had gun also? he could of feared for his life and he didn't have the convenience of cover like your wife did so in turn he was actually in more danger at that time.Could of easily been a shootout. So..... A simple verbal confrontation is no reason to brandish. My advice,get her some OC spray. That would of been more in line with the situation.

    I was always taught that your gun only comes out if your gonna use it. I live by that rule. So I know if someone shows me a firearm I can only assume they plan on using it,and hopefully mine fires first.
    When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    OK...now did she call 911 and report him and give a description? Or are you going to wait until the other guy calls 911 and reports some lady pulled a gun on him as he was riding his bike?
    You made a good point there. If the guy on the bike did call this in first she could be in trouble if a cop were to stop her further down the road.

  8. #37
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    Also , Arizona is an open carry state , so if by showing the gun, while in your car, still holstered, Brandishing IS/WAS not an issue.

    Here is a definition of brandishing by the MI. Attorney General;

    Section 16-246 Brandishing a weapon.
    (a) A person commits the offense of brandishing a weapon when the person exhibit s any deadly or dangerous weapon in a rude, angry or threatening manner to any person in the city or go es into any courthouse, church, school or any other public meeting carrying a deadly or dangerous weapon.
    (b) For the purposes of this section, the term "deadly or dangerous weapon" means any weapon other than a firearm, from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or serious physical injury, may be discharged, or a knife, dagger, billy, blackjack or metal knuckles .
    (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to police officers and other officers or persons whose duty it is to execute process or warrants or to make arrests.
    (d) The crime of brandishing a weapon is a class A misdemeanor.
    (Code 1964, 7.1170; Ord. No. 018042, 1, 4-19-04)
    (Ord. 018042, Amended, 04/19/2004, Prior Text)


    http://candicemiller.house.gov.


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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I rode a motorcycle for 20 years in the valley, i know how drivers are, and her waving her firearm at an unarmed individual? Felony.
    And I've been driving around motorcycles for quite a while, I know how a lot of guys on sport bikes are. They think because they're small and fast they can do whatever they want. Passing between cars at stoplights, passing between cars on the highway, shooting small closing gaps between cars, using the shoulder to pass cars.... I could go on. Heck, I've even seen a group of guys on bikes doing stunts on the highway, including wheelies and touching their front tire on someone's trunk lid while doing a wheelie. Motorcycle riders can be stupider than anyone else on the road.

    If someone cuts me off and I have to hit my brakes to avoid hitting them, I lay on my horn. I'm letting them know that if I can't stop fast enough, they're going to get hit and it's their fault. Someone mentioned hitting the horn and staying on it until the person leaves. That honestly might work for me. My Jeep has an aftermarket horn that reaches around 119Db, nice and high-pitched. I'm not sure there are many people that would want to endure an extended exposure to it. That would not, however, be my solution. I'd drive away.

    A motorcycle simply cannot block a street. Unless it's a one-lane, one-way street with someone blocking my rear, I can get out without a confrontation. Even in that situation, if I can't get out. I'd grab my cell and dial 911. If he presents a weapon, I'll run his bike down. He won't like what my 33's do to his little crotch-rocket. I'm not drawing a firearm unless I have to in order to save my life. If I'm on foot I'm going to draw a lot faster than if I'm in a vehicle, simply because a vehicle gives me a reliable, fast escape.
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  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMyRight2 View Post
    I would say no she wasn't justified.The man didn't brandish a weapon and she was in safe cover of her vehicle. Now if guy was banging on window and trying to enter vehicle than thats a different story. I feel she really could of escalated the situation by brandishing. What if guy had gun also? he could of feared for his life and he didn't have the convenience of cover like your wife did so in turn he was actually in more danger at that time.Could of easily been a shootout. So..... A simple verbal confrontation is no reason to brandish. My advice,get her some OC spray. That would of been more in line with the situation.

    I was always taught that your gun only comes out if your gonna use it. I live by that rule. So I know if someone shows me a firearm I can only assume they plan on using it,and hopefully mine fires first.
    i agree with this post to a point...but her gun was in the glove box...waiting until the threat was at her door would be a tactical error and probably too late to utilize it to defend herself...if he was acting violently...even verbally violent i would consider it preparation as opposed to brandishing...it was after all still holstered....she did not draw her firearm...she had to retrieve it to prepare for what looked like a possible violent confrontation...

    again...i am not in total disagreement with what she did if the person in question was indeed being predjudicial and verbally abusive...thats an unpredictable situation....i do believe she should have collected as much info as possible and contacted law enforcement immediately...road rage is against the law and they probably would have considered her preparation justified under the circumstances...

    i understand the thought that blowing a horn is escalation...it doesnt justify someone blocking anothers passage and acting in a threatening manner...whether she escalated it or not and what her intentions were when she blew the horn he took it to another level altogether...maybe she'll think twice next time but a call to law enforcement would have given him a reason to think twice next time also...because nothing he could tell an officer would excuse him for what he contributed to the situation...

  11. #40
    Member Array jdjon's Avatar
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    Kelcarry,

    Did you attend my class?
    Mike....
    1. You can't argue, then pull a gun.
    2. Show him your cell phone while calling 911, before he reports you for Brandishing.
    3. Some folks think a YIELD sign is a STOP sign.....I get POed too.
    4. These things have already been said, I'll shut up. lol
    SLED Certified CWP Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, Range Safety Officer, NRA Recruiter, Affiliate Instructor Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, member NRA,USCCA,GOA,GrassRootsSC.
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  12. #41
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    She started blowing the horn after she was cut off. Obviously using the horn to express her displeasure. S he stops to yell at her, which is the same expression of displeasure. If he's acting aggressively, she caused it. Therefore she is not justified in using her weapon in any fashion, either shooting or as a warning sign. An armed individual should exercise better judgement than that. Hopefully she understands and learns her lesson.

    You said you're not "you know what". I don't know what. What does "you know what" mean?

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carguy2244 View Post
    She started blowing the horn after she was cut off. Obviously using the horn to express her displeasure. S he stops to yell at her, which is the same expression of displeasure. If he's acting aggressively, she caused it. Therefore she is not justified in using her weapon in any fashion, either shooting or as a warning sign. An armed individual should exercise better judgement than that. Hopefully she understands and learns her lesson.

    You said you're not "you know what". I don't know what. What does "you know what" mean?
    blocking a vehicle...getting off your motorcycle and approaching another vehicle while yelling is a far cry from the same show of displeasure as blowing a horn...blowing your horn back is expressing the same displeasure...posing a potential physical threat and yelling at someone paints a bit of a different picture...

    i agree with the you know what statement...it stood out to me in the op also...but i thought he was trying to avoid saying soemthing that would offend someone....while in fact saying something that might offend someone...

  14. #43
    Member Array gunsite's Avatar
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    Never let and IDIOT control or force your tactics/actions, you have to decide to act base on training/tactics/strategy, not your FEELINGS. You react/act using your MIND... not your HEART. When you pull your weapon, your whole world can change....

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    I'd be upset myself in this kind of situation. But I'd just let him go. A confrontation is not worth for any petty stuff like this.

  16. #45
    MJK
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    1. Did the rider threaten her with severe bodily harm?
    2. Was the threat immediate and proximate?
    3. Did the rider exhibit the capability to inflict severe bodily harm?

    Since I wasn't there I can't say with 100% certainty, but based on the scenario description it seems the answer to these questions is "no".

    Add to that the fact that she escalated the encounter and I have to conclude she made a serious error in judgement by brandishing her weapon. The rider could have easily contacted LE and had her arrested; she'd be facing some serious charges if that had occurred. Talk about a day gone bad!

    For your family's sake please have her get the necessary training to avoid these situation in the future.

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