July 23rd, 2010 02:13 PM
I started off my comment with "If I couldn't drive around the motorcycle..." - so an escape route isn't an option. I continued with "If he is about to attack me with a club or something to break the window...my 4000 lb vehicle hits his 500 lb bike as hard as I can arrange it..."
Originally Posted by bladenbullet
Neither insurance nor the cops would blink an eye. If he uses his bike to facilitate his attack - which he is doing when he blocks my escape route with it - then I have every right to smash his bike and escape from physical assault: "...he is about to attack me with a club...". At that point, most states allow me to use deadly force to protect myself from being clubbed. If I had any doubt about being able to clear an escape route with my car, I could and would use a gun to prevent getting my head caved in. I believe in showing great restraint in using a gun, but I wouldn't carry if I wasn't willing to save my life with one.
July 23rd, 2010 02:16 PM
i'm following you now....thanks for pointing that out...i was thinking you were using the motorcycle to make a point...
Originally Posted by bsms
July 23rd, 2010 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by JAMNMIKE
See I read the OP that the wife was turning left at a light, and the motor cycle was on another side of the intersection with a yield sign.
She was making a left turn as her light was green and a motorcyclist had a yield sign and went straight out and tried to beat her.
He did say she was making a left turn at a light, not driving down the street.
Yes, the confrontation might have happend further down the street, but simply seeing that he was going to run it and waiting at the light -allowing him to do whatever made him feel macho - would have totally avoided the whole down the road situation - which was the point of my post.
If you don't feel like getting into a wreck and/or bad situation today, drive defensively. My mom always said that being right wasn't worth ruining your car over.
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"
July 24th, 2010 01:11 AM
The cyclist was already in front of her. There was no need to advise him of her presence. (UNless she wanted to warn him before she ran him over).
Originally Posted by Bark'n
Once there is no danger in a situation...reckless or accidentally careless person is in front of you or out of the way....there is no reason to alert them to your presence....only your disapproval.
If someone continues to drive dangerously...call 911. I've read here about people who honked and corralled other drivers to 'let them know they were driving dangerously'. IMO, that's a one in a million thing...and the odds of them taking it positiviely even less. Yes, it does happen...but not much. And any mishaps that happed because of your actions will fall on you, legally.
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
July 24th, 2010 01:31 AM
I would say no she wasn't justified.The man didn't brandish a weapon and she was in safe cover of her vehicle. Now if guy was banging on window and trying to enter vehicle than thats a different story. I feel she really could of escalated the situation by brandishing. What if guy had gun also? he could of feared for his life and he didn't have the convenience of cover like your wife did so in turn he was actually in more danger at that time.Could of easily been a shootout. So..... A simple verbal confrontation is no reason to brandish. My advice,get her some OC spray. That would of been more in line with the situation.
I was always taught that your gun only comes out if your gonna use it. I live by that rule. So I know if someone shows me a firearm I can only assume they plan on using it,and hopefully mine fires first.
When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. - Thomas Jefferson
July 24th, 2010 10:57 AM
You made a good point there. If the guy on the bike did call this in first she could be in trouble if a cop were to stop her further down the road.
Originally Posted by SIGguy229
July 24th, 2010 11:33 AM
Also , Arizona is an open carry state , so if by showing the gun, while in your car, still holstered, Brandishing IS/WAS not an issue.
Here is a definition of brandishing by the MI. Attorney General;
Section 16-246 Brandishing a weapon.
(a) A person commits the offense of brandishing a weapon when the person exhibit s any deadly or dangerous weapon in a rude, angry or threatening manner to any person in the city or go es into any courthouse, church, school or any other public meeting carrying a deadly or dangerous weapon.
(b) For the purposes of this section, the term "deadly or dangerous weapon" means any weapon other than a firearm, from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or serious physical injury, may be discharged, or a knife, dagger, billy, blackjack or metal knuckles .
(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to police officers and other officers or persons whose duty it is to execute process or warrants or to make arrests.
(d) The crime of brandishing a weapon is a class A misdemeanor.
(Code 1964, § 7.1170; Ord. No. 018042, § 1, 4-19-04)
(Ord. 018042, Amended, 04/19/2004, Prior Text)
"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress."
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn
July 28th, 2010 01:54 PM
And I've been driving around motorcycles for quite a while, I know how a lot of guys on sport bikes are. They think because they're small and fast they can do whatever they want. Passing between cars at stoplights, passing between cars on the highway, shooting small closing gaps between cars, using the shoulder to pass cars.... I could go on. Heck, I've even seen a group of guys on bikes doing stunts on the highway, including wheelies and touching their front tire on someone's trunk lid while doing a wheelie. Motorcycle riders can be stupider than anyone else on the road.
Originally Posted by azchevy
If someone cuts me off and I have to hit my brakes to avoid hitting them, I lay on my horn. I'm letting them know that if I can't stop fast enough, they're going to get hit and it's their fault. Someone mentioned hitting the horn and staying on it until the person leaves. That honestly might work for me. My Jeep has an aftermarket horn that reaches around 119Db, nice and high-pitched. I'm not sure there are many people that would want to endure an extended exposure to it. That would not, however, be my solution. I'd drive away.
A motorcycle simply cannot block a street. Unless it's a one-lane, one-way street with someone blocking my rear, I can get out without a confrontation. Even in that situation, if I can't get out. I'd grab my cell and dial 911. If he presents a weapon, I'll run his bike down. He won't like what my 33's do to his little crotch-rocket. I'm not drawing a firearm unless I have to in order to save my life. If I'm on foot I'm going to draw a lot faster than if I'm in a vehicle, simply because a vehicle gives me a reliable, fast escape.
This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.
July 28th, 2010 02:21 PM
i agree with this post to a point...but her gun was in the glove box...waiting until the threat was at her door would be a tactical error and probably too late to utilize it to defend herself...if he was acting violently...even verbally violent i would consider it preparation as opposed to brandishing...it was after all still holstered....she did not draw her firearm...she had to retrieve it to prepare for what looked like a possible violent confrontation...
Originally Posted by ItsMyRight2
again...i am not in total disagreement with what she did if the person in question was indeed being predjudicial and verbally abusive...thats an unpredictable situation....i do believe she should have collected as much info as possible and contacted law enforcement immediately...road rage is against the law and they probably would have considered her preparation justified under the circumstances...
i understand the thought that blowing a horn is escalation...it doesnt justify someone blocking anothers passage and acting in a threatening manner...whether she escalated it or not and what her intentions were when she blew the horn he took it to another level altogether...maybe she'll think twice next time but a call to law enforcement would have given him a reason to think twice next time also...because nothing he could tell an officer would excuse him for what he contributed to the situation...
July 28th, 2010 07:28 PM
Did you attend my class?
1. You can't argue, then pull a gun.
2. Show him your cell phone while calling 911, before he reports you for Brandishing.
3. Some folks think a YIELD sign is a STOP sign.....I get POed too.
4. These things have already been said, I'll shut up. lol
SLED Certified CWP Instructor, NRA Certified Instructor, Range Safety Officer, NRA Recruiter, Affiliate Instructor Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, member NRA,USCCA,GOA,GrassRootsSC.
July 29th, 2010 12:51 AM
She started blowing the horn after she was cut off. Obviously using the horn to express her displeasure. S he stops to yell at her, which is the same expression of displeasure. If he's acting aggressively, she caused it. Therefore she is not justified in using her weapon in any fashion, either shooting or as a warning sign. An armed individual should exercise better judgement than that. Hopefully she understands and learns her lesson.
You said you're not "you know what". I don't know what. What does "you know what" mean?
July 29th, 2010 07:38 AM
blocking a vehicle...getting off your motorcycle and approaching another vehicle while yelling is a far cry from the same show of displeasure as blowing a horn...blowing your horn back is expressing the same displeasure...posing a potential physical threat and yelling at someone paints a bit of a different picture...
Originally Posted by carguy2244
i agree with the you know what statement...it stood out to me in the op also...but i thought he was trying to avoid saying soemthing that would offend someone....while in fact saying something that might offend someone...
July 29th, 2010 07:48 AM
Never let and IDIOT control or force your tactics/actions, you have to decide to act base on training/tactics/strategy, not your FEELINGS. You react/act using your MIND... not your HEART. When you pull your weapon, your whole world can change....
July 29th, 2010 03:11 PM
I'd be upset myself in this kind of situation. But I'd just let him go. A confrontation is not worth for any petty stuff like this.
July 31st, 2010 09:28 AM
1. Did the rider threaten her with severe bodily harm?
2. Was the threat immediate and proximate?
3. Did the rider exhibit the capability to inflict severe bodily harm?
Since I wasn't there I can't say with 100% certainty, but based on the scenario description it seems the answer to these questions is "no".
Add to that the fact that she escalated the encounter and I have to conclude she made a serious error in judgement by brandishing her weapon. The rider could have easily contacted LE and had her arrested; she'd be facing some serious charges if that had occurred. Talk about a day gone bad!
For your family's sake please have her get the necessary training to avoid these situation in the future.
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