Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario - Page 2

Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario

This is a discussion on Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hmmmm.....I don't think I would draw just yet.....depends on what is happening right at that moment. I would probably call for management...maybe have my wife ...

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Thread: Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Hmmmm.....I don't think I would draw just yet.....depends on what is happening right at that moment.

    I would probably call for management...maybe have my wife on the phone with 911. But one thing is definitely going to happen--he will not touch my child. If he thinks he is going to get through me to do it--he would be sorely wrong. However, my first attempt will be verbal--not in a rude, yelling manner--because that is what bullies like this expect. If a calm voice will not deter him, a reminder that my wife is on the phone with 911 because he is threatening a toddler would hopefully deter him. If not, I will ask management to ask him to leave...then it's the restaurant's problem.

    Now, having been a responsible parent, there is a difference between a toddler who is in a full-blown meltdown and one who is just be "conversant". We have left restaurants when our children are starting the meltdown...because we don't want to be "those" parents. However, if someone cannot tolerate a conversant child who cannot form words yet, then I say get over it. It's the parents of children who subject the rest of the restaurant (or airplane!!) to their children's full-on, overblown, meltdown...then those parents need realize the world doesn't revolve around them and their child...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know


  2. #17
    Member Array Back 40's Avatar
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    Now, having been a responsible parent, there is a difference between a toddler who is in a full-blown meltdown and one who is just be "conversant". We have left restaurants when our children are starting the meltdown...because we don't want to be "those" parents. However, if someone cannot tolerate a conversant child who cannot form words yet, then I say get over it. It's the parents of children who subject the rest of the restaurant (or airplane!!) to their children's full-on, overblown, meltdown...then those parents need realize the world doesn't revolve around them and their child...

    +1 well said and I agree 100%

  3. #18
    Member Array dropped_71chevy's Avatar
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    As a breeder, I feel that it's my responsibility to control my child's behavior. If he won't act appropriately then I'll remove him from the area. Now with that understood, if another patron felt annoyed by my child's behavior then I'd alert management and ask that they address the issue.

    A second outburst from the other patron would result in my party moving to a different part of the restaurant if at all possible. This, like any other situation, calls for an attempt to distance yourself from the threat before another action. If he did approach us then I'd place myself between the aggressor and my family with full desire to escalate force as necessary.

    Now don't get me started on the judgmental attitude that those without children sometimes have of those that do.

  4. #19
    Member Array Ice Man's Avatar
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    I had this exact thing happen too me a couple years ago. A middle aged couple came in and seated themselves in the booth next to My wife, three young sons, and myself. The resturaunt was nearly empty and my sons were being very quiet and respectful. The woman kept making snarky remarks about how children didnt belong in resturaunts and derogatory remarks about how people shouldnt have children if they expect the rest of the world to put up with them. The man finaly made a comment directly to my wife, "shut your litter of retards up". I said to the man "shut your joyless (foul language) of a wife up". My sons were being very good, I guess they took issue with the year old baby banging his spoon. He said another disrespectful comment to my wife and I asked him if he wanted to go outside and talk about this, he declined. He called my kids retards again, so I got up and dumped a plate of General Tso Chicken on his lap. He screamed some select words at me and they stormed out. The staff of the resturaunt was laughing loudly at this. I asked a waitress if I could have a mop and pail to clean the mess up, and she told me to sit down and enjoy my meal. My boys all got a scoop of ice cream on the house. I think this couple may have been regulars with a serious attitue problem...

    To the posters who expect parents to lock their kids in the basement..

    How do you expect parents to teach their children how to act in public if we do not take them in public? I suppose we should isolate them until age 18 and then just release them on the public and hope for the best. Children are part of life and part of our civilization, if they are acting age appropriate... DEAL WITH IT. If it aint a black tie establishment, kids gotta eat too!
    guardmt and BugDude like this.
    My GLOCK goes BANG every time!

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    This scenario really did happen at a walmart I believe. I'll try to dig up the link. BRB.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  6. #21
    New Member Array MikeRR's Avatar
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    I enjoyed reading the responses, but most are going off-topic a bit. The scenario addresses an immediate threat to a toddler who was not bothering anyone else but one hot-tempered patron who proceeded to threaten a toddler in a matter of seconds. Getting management involved is not an option in this scenario for lack of time as situation escalated quickly, nor is there a need to remove the offending toddler from the premises as he is not causing a scene in the eyes of any reasonable person. The question is - are there any other options except for drawing your weapon based on these particular circumstances? Is the child in grave danger to justify a drawing or worse?

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Heres the link;

    http://www.cbsatlanta.com/news/20684677/detail.html

    I don't have a child yet but if anyone say anything like that then make a move towards me or my kid then I will feel that my life or my child's life is in danger.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  8. #23
    New Member Array MikeRR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Man View Post
    How do you expect parents to teach their children how to act in public if we do not take them in public? I suppose we should isolate them until age 18 and then just release them on the public and hope for the best. Children are part of life and part of our civilization, if they are acting age appropriate... DEAL WITH IT. If it aint a black tie establishment, kids gotta eat too!
    +1 for that. I only dine in establishments that are not posted, and that means both my concealed weapon AND hungry children are welcome. If anyone wishes to dine without ever hearing a baby/toddler acting age appropriate, perhaps they should go grocery shopping and eat at home. Another option someone brought up was a bar.

  9. #24
    Member Array Shackleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back 40 View Post
    Biker,
    I normally agree with you in lock step. On this one you are so far off. If you don't want to have to deal with children or "breeders" go to a bar where children are not allowed. If you are in a public place get used to it. I do agree that children should be removed if they are causing a scene but to believe that your rights trump anyone elses to be in a public resturant is a little alarming.
    +1. The attitude of many children is deplorable, but most toddlers cannot communicate other than noises.
    I travel a lot so I am used to the sound of babies crying, and sometimes right next to me. For some reason it doesn't affect me. I guess I just learned to tune it out.

    As to the OP, I wouldn't draw just yet - but warn him that it would be extremely inadvisable to touch any of your party. Once the hothead is determined a real threat make sure everyone hears you say "Please stop harassing my child!!" a couple times before you drop that motherless coward. If you take the offender down, try to make sure the kid doesn't see it. They might not understand exactly what happened but they'll know instinctively that it was terrible, and the child in question might be traumatized.
    Ask for a manager to handle it before you go blasting BG's in Famous Anthony's, eh? Just MHO, and I hope no one is faced with this situation.

    Oh, and when my friends and I are in a restaurant with kids/babies present we immediately curb our foul sailors mouths just in case a kid accidentally picks up on a new word. We tend to be a quiet bunch and all with cool level heads, and when a baby starts crying we don't even react unless the parental unit is neglecting it's child (then it's an off-hand shake of the head to hard glance at the parent in question). Something I see far too often, but it's not my place to get involved.
    Last edited by Shackleton; July 25th, 2010 at 04:06 AM. Reason: Syntax
    Semper Paratus

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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shackleton View Post
    As to the OP, I wouldn't draw just yet - but warn him that it would be extremely inadvisable to touch any of your party. Once the hothead is determined a real threat make sure everyone hears you say "Please stop harassing my child!!" a couple times before you drop that motherless coward.
    I would think something to the effect of (and in a LOUD voice): "Stay away from my child....do not touch my child" would deter the bully (after calm options are exhausted)....maybe throw the word "molester" out or "why do you want to touch my child!?" (yeah...I don't play fair)...basically, I'd rather shame someone rather than shoot them. But hey, they play their cards, I'll play mine. No reason to show my hand (gun) if I don't have to.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
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  11. #26
    Member Array Hkchris's Avatar
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    Place my opened CRKT on the table. For cutting my steak of course.

    Seriously though. The damage a grown person can do to an infant or toddler in my opinion is considered deadly force. If he stands up and walks towards me I'm drawing down on him and giving him verbal warnings. If he continues I'm defending my child. I'm not risking their possible death, brain damage, or paralysis.

  12. #27
    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    I definitely disagree that kids don't belong in restaurants. That's ridiculous. I'm not going to take my kids to nice upscale restaurant but if we want to go to denny's on a friday night we have the same right as everyone else. As others mentioned if you don't want to deal with kids then don't have any and don't frequent places that allow them.
    Based on the OP the child is only bothering the one guy so I don't believe the parents are out of hand by staying there. +1 to informing management as soon as the first comment is made and maybe moving to another part of the restaurant. If it did escalate to the scenario at hand then he woud be met toe-to-toe before he gets anywhere near my child. I don't think that the scenario as presented calls for drawing unless he is twice your size and set on doing damage to your child. Once it gets to this point it is time to get the police involved and have the wife take the child to a safe area. Someone like this who would threaten a child in a public place sounds like a wannabe bully that got picked on in high school. Once his attitude is met with force I doubt he will be interested in pursuing it any further, if it did get to the point where I felt the need to draw then the sight of my barrel in his face would probably make him crap himself.
    I will always do my best to be respectful of others especially when taking my kids in public. If I am somewhere legally and someone feels the need to threaten my family, I will not hesitate to defend them and myself end of story.

  13. #28
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    but to believe that your rights trump anyone elses to be in a public resturant is a little alarming.
    To think that the rights of your child to disrupt my meal trumps my right to dine in peace is alarming to me.

    I am well aware of age appropriate behavior, but from what I've seen most parental units seem to let their hooligans run amuck with no control. I should not have to endure a crying baby, that is crying because it's tired and can't sleep because the restaurant is too noisy for them, or their diaper needs changing but Momma is too lazy to get off her fat butt and go change it because it would interfere with her scarfing down of food stuff, is just plain rude to the other patrons.

    I'm all for taking children out in public, but doing so entails responsibility on your part to be vigilent in regards to their behavior and to correct the behavior that is inappropriate. Correction can be by way of a "time out", stern talking too, or spanking depending upon your methods.

    Nowhere did I post that my rights trump anyone else's. It's about common courtesy. I am willing to overlook some things, but if their comes a point where the child is effecting the dining expirience of the other patrons then it is the adult's responsibility to deal with the problem. You're the adult to the child, so deal with it. As another patron I will deal with it by complaining to the staff about your child's behavior if I find it inappropriate, and maybe even leaving the restaurant. Sadly too many parents fail their children by not monitoring and correcting their behavior, and this is what I find distasteful to my palate.

    Biker

  14. #29
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    Absolutely nothing has transpired in the scenario that warrants drawing a firearm, and in fact in Florida you'd be setting yourself up for a mandatory three year prison vacation.

    Interpose yourself between the person and the child. Use your training to defuse and de-escalate the situation. If he won't calm down, deploy reasonable force proportionate to the situation.

    No need to go to the gun here, but the thought serves to illustrate a point - when your only tool is a hammer, every problem resembles a nail.

    Matt
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  15. #30
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    I think Biker has a valid point to make regarding the parenting skills of what you see routinely today.

    I'm 49 years old, and I can assure you in the days when I was said toddler, my parents would not even think twice about pulling my butt out of the restaurant and take me to the car for some attitude adjustment. And the other parents did the same. People just had a certain responsibility about them in those days where they did now allow their children to disrupt other peoples peaceful meal while out at a restaurant.

    We sit around and complain about the direction the country is headed. How political correctness is ruining this country and turning everyone into a bunch of sheep. The family unit has broken down and everyone is sticking their nose in everyone else' business. People let their children rule them and do not teach boundaries, manners or responsibility these days.

    And we wonder why our country is in the shape it is. Well, it all has a cumulative effect. Every little thing adds to the overall outcome.

    Back when I was a toddler, people tolerated a lot more. People wouldn't become belligerent because of a toddlers occasional outburst. But neither would the parents just sit there and let it continue either. In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's.
    -Bark'n
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