Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario

This is a discussion on Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I, too, have zero tolerance for the parent who is "immune" to their screaming child. Rambuctious is one thing, screaming because momma won't do anything ...

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Thread: Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario

  1. #46
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    I, too, have zero tolerance for the parent who is "immune" to their screaming child. Rambuctious is one thing, screaming because momma won't do anything about it is another.

    Saying anything to the other guy can be considered "escalation." Ignore him, and if he moves toward your family, get between him and them, warn him once that you're about to call 911 and have him arrested. If he makes a futher move, then I'll pay the cards as they fall.
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  3. #47
    Member Array hardworker's Avatar
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    tell him you're trying to handle it and you're sorry and if he gets up find make it abundantly clear he will eat a fistful of knuckles if he gets within striking distance of the kid.

  4. #48
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    Believe me, screaming unruly children in a restaurant setting is very annoying but not at any time do I or anyone else have the right to slap or hit a child who's parents are obviously unaware of the commotion. That my friends is assault and basically is against the law. The screaming child scenario is one that has no answers until the parents of said child attempt to calm the little one or remove them from the area.

    Here in lies all the contributing factors leading up to an assault. A : screeching child B: Inability or unwillingness to calm or remove child by parents C: Patron who cannot stand the scenario and D: Doing something physical to the child unless the parents do something.

    Even if the parents are not willing to do "something" about the child, the annoyed person still has NO right to strike a child, period. Those parents have every right to defend their child from any harm, that includes drawing a handgun. I for one will never tolerate another person attempting to strike my child for any reason. They had better hope that they have hospitalization and are wearing a bullet proof vest.

    Yet, parents do need to get a grip on the situation and at least try to calm the child, it is after all their responsibility to avert a physical confrontation.
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  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    ...parents do need to get a grip on the situation and at least try to calm the child, it is after all their responsibility to avert a physical confrontation.
    And it's incumbent on adults to act as adults and exercise self-control in words and actions...if a child is acting up...it's not up to a stranger to correct a child.
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  6. #50
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    You expect to find noisy children at places like Walmart, McDonald's, BG, and such BUT if I am at a very nice place for a very nice dinner I cannot stand noisy kids. IMHO kids should be seen and not heard.
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  7. #51
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    If you're a family sitting in MickyDs or Arbys - anything goes.

    If you're in a nice establishment then be a better parent and a more conscientious citizen and that scenario will never happen.

    If your kid is acting up in a nice restaurant where others are paying their hard earned money to go out enjoy a nice meal out they should not be forced to listen to your ill behaved brat being loud, whining, noisy, & obnoxious.

    Get up and take your kid away from the tables or outside and try to settle him or her down away & "out of earshot" of other people.

    Then return to the table after your child has settled down & if that previous attempt has failed and your kid starts acting out again then call the waitress over & ask for a doggie bag and take your spoiled brat out to the car and eat your meal in your vehicle or (better yet) find a babysitter that you can trust and leave your uncontrollable kid at home if you want to go out and eat.

    Either that or turn around and offer to pay for my meal since it was your kid that ruined it.

  8. #52
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    Wow, this has gotten way off topic. The OP did not say that this was a nice restaurant so, for all of you who say that McDonald's is the only appropriate place for a child to eat, pretend this is happening in a McDonald's.

    Let's respond to the spirit of the guy's question.

    Does someone who has made a verbal threat to "shut your kid up" and is moving aggressively toward your child present an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm that would justify drawing a firearm?
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  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I, too, have zero tolerance for the parent who is "immune" to their screaming child. Rambuctious is one thing, screaming because momma won't do anything about it is another.

    Saying anything to the other guy can be considered "escalation." Ignore him, and if he moves toward your family, get between him and them, warn him once that you're about to call 911 and have him arrested. If he makes a futher move, then I'll pay the cards as they fall.
    That, right there, is the smartest answer in this thread

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Man View Post
    How do you expect parents to teach their children how to act in public...
    Refraining from childish behavior yourself might be a good start.

    You do realize that dumping a plateful of food on someone very likely constitutes assault, don't you? Someone makes a comment, you escalate the confrontation, you throw food, and then you brag about it? As if you did something you should be commended for. Wow.

  11. #55
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  12. #56
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    I'd shoot him in the face.

  13. #57
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    I really don't think that an easy and painless prevention of a given scenario is "off topic" to the thread.
    If I did think that then I would not have posted my reply.

    To directly answer the thread question...I'm not certain that it would be wise to draw a firearm and start sending bullets careening out of the muzzle.
    That would not be very intelligent thing to do in a restaurant filled with people who have kids with good manners & any time you present your firearm you may actually be forced to use it.

    Should the upset patron take you by surprise and actually slap your child then have that individual arrested and there will be criminal charges for sure.

    And then you also file a civil suit - take that Million & use the money to hire a personal chef, open your own exclusive restaurant, and only allow parents with disruptive kids to eat there.

    Then you'll all deserve one another - Everybody can yell and scream use Crayons to "color" on the tablecloths and you can have food fights galore.



    Quote Originally Posted by gruntingfrog View Post
    Wow, this has gotten way off topic. The OP did not say that this was a nice restaurant so, for all of you who say that McDonald's is the only appropriate place for a child to eat, pretend this is happening in a McDonald's.

    Let's respond to the spirit of the guy's question.

    Does someone who has made a verbal threat to "shut your kid up" and is moving aggressively toward your child present an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm that would justify drawing a firearm?

  14. #58
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    First, I'm sure this will get comments.. but.... I worked in a noisy enviornment, and I've raised 2 kids plus (while single) had 2 grandkids who've lived with me over the last 13 yrs. So, I like kids and do well with kids. BUT, some times I go out to dinner intentionally to smoking places... so there weren't any kids. Now they have eliminated that by banning smoking in ALL places so that "families" can go there too. Well, there are some places people like to go because there are not any kids and where they can sit down quietly and enjoy their meal without a constant "mommy.... mommy... mommy" at the top of their lungs. So, I don't believe ALL restaurants should be familiy / kid friendly.

    Second, it's up to parents to control their kids and teach them manners when out to eat. If they are that young (18 mo's) manners is not part of the program as they won't understand them. Go to a family type restaurant. Kids will be kids, no matter what. Assuming you did, then the guy should seek a different place to eat that is a more friendly environment to what he's wanting, and get over himself.

    Now, if you are doing all of that...... and someone is just an ass..... NO the gun should not come out. Geeeez... a gun is not and should not be the first tool you think of in the box of tools to use. There is NO threat to your life or your kid, at that point. You are talking about "brandishing" and likely will end up in jail for 'threat with a deadly weapon'. Talk to the waitress / management about a resolution and be open to suggestions.

    If the person has an issue, he should be bringing that up with the waitress / management.... and maybe him or you ought to be moving to areas within the restaurant where you will both be comfortable and happy.

    Now, despite all of this...... I have seen cases where someone did just what you suggested.... and about 20 people were instantly up and ready to stomp the guy down, including me.... you don't harm a kid for being a kid, nor start threatening to harm them.
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  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I really don't think that an easy and painless prevention of a given scenario is "off topic" to the thread.
    If I did think that then I would not have posted my reply.
    I actually wasn't referring to your post directly because I agree with you. Discussing non-violent ways to avoid or mitigate the situation before it gets to the point of violence is perfectly on topic.

    I was objecting to the fact that the discussion had migrated to how people should control their children in public and how people hate to go to fancy restaurants (apparently anything other than fast food is "fancy") and hear a child even speak. Perhaps it was the title of the thread that got people going, but in the text of the OP the child in question is just "being a kid" not running wild, not screaming continuously, not throwing things. Since it wasn't specified, I'm going to assume that this is not a four star restaurant since I've never seen anyone bring kids into those (there's just nothing for them to eat). In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a small child in anything but what I would consider a family restaurant.

    That being said, given the facts as laid out in the case this is a complex situation (aren't they all ) so I would quickly have to answer some questions.

    1. Can I get out of my seat and intercept the man before he reaches the child? If so, the gun stays holstered. At that point I've mitigated the disparity of force by placing myself in place of the man's intended victim. If I can't intercept, I need to decide #2 very quickly.

    2. Is it obvious that the man is headed toward the child to inflict harm? If so, I think that constitutes a severe disparity of force. This is a really tricky question to answer, because he may be angry and approaching the table quickly, but I'd hate to pull a gun on somebody who was just coming to the table to yell at me.
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  16. #60
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    In my 50s, I still refuse to go to a restaurant where T-shirts are inappropriate. And my kids slowly made the progression from McD to Denny's to Olive Garden, which is about as close to nice dining as I'll get. I also distinguish between parents saying "Hush! Use your spy voice!" and parents ignoring their brood.

    That said, this scenario could play out on an airplane or McD. The rule is to use what force is required to protect your family & no more. Standing up, saying in a loud voice, "I will not let you attack my child!" and preparing for a fist fight is appropriate. Calling the management before it reaches this step is even better. If it is a 'family restaurant', they will probably re-seat someone. If the other guy is a drunk looking for a fight, they may ask him to leave. The reaction of other patrons is also a help. If they are ALL looking at you like you are a turd in a punchbowl...leave. If they are looking at the other guy that way, call management.

    But if a guy stands up saying he'll shut up my grandkid for me, he'll have to get over the top of me first. But a gun is not the right tool for this problem, not normally.

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