Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario - Page 6

Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario

This is a discussion on Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Personal attacks and off topic arguing posts will be deleted. From here on out, infractions will be issued if it continues....

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Thread: Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario

  1. #76
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    Personal attacks and off topic arguing posts will be deleted. From here on out, infractions will be issued if it continues.
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  2. #77
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    I think I would rise and move away from the table, so that he'll face me...and speak very definitely and clearly to the aggressor...thereby hopefully drawing him away from the table and my family. I would keep him focused on me....and try to involve management in interceding. I would make sure I stayed between aggressor and family.

    Guy's a jerk...not worth engaging him physically and risking legal problems and $$$.
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  3. #78
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    I think with all the talk of defensive situations, many loose sight of the fact that sometimes honor needs to be defended.
    No, absolutely not, not just no but ohHELLno.

    You do not have the luxury of pride when you are carrying a firearm. You do not get to be pissed off because someone “disrespects” you. You do not get to defend your “honor.”

    As a gun owner you have to be the one to swallow your pride every single time because any altercation you’re involved in has the potential for deadly force and if that ever happens you are going to be asked to justify your actions. That’s going to be difficult to do when the facts of the case indicate that you bucked up on the guy because he insulted your children and he pulled a gun on you (We’re not the only people out there that are packing) and your mouth got you into a situation where you had to shoot.

  4. #79
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    this^^
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    No, absolutely not, not just no but ohHELLno.

    You do not have the luxury of pride when you are carrying a firearm. You do not get to be pissed off because someone “disrespects” you. You do not get to defend your “honor.”

    As a gun owner you have to be the one to swallow your pride every single time because any altercation you’re involved in has the potential for deadly force and if that ever happens you are going to be asked to justify your actions. That’s going to be difficult to do when the facts of the case indicate that you bucked up on the guy because he insulted your children and he pulled a gun on you (We’re not the only people out there that are packing) and your mouth got you into a situation where you had to shoot.
    +1
    Its called escalating the situation, DONT DO IT. When they become a physical threat then respond, until then just be the bigger man and ignore it.

  6. #81
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    If he did touch me, I would immediately attempt to break his knee or headbutt him(if he's as short as me ). Or hit him in the throat. But I would let him make the first move and I would make it known that he touched me first. At that point, I have the right to defend myself and that would take my child out of the picture.
    Now here's an answer I can fully support. I like the way this man thinks. Nothing in the original scenario as given has us anywhere remotely close to needing a firearm.

    Regarding the headbutt, that's a great move and almost nobody ever expects it. Feet, hands, they may be watching for that but not your forehead coming up and "bam!" Easy to break the nose, and less risk of injuring yourself as often happens if you hit someone's face with your fist. If the guy is taller than you, you can grab his lapels and drag his head downward as you use your grip to launch yourself up. You can get a good shot in.

    But we aren't even at this level yet. Don't need to be breaking knees and smashing faces and throats. Some stranger appears to be approaching your child in a way you don't like, interpose yourself and be ready. If he tries to get around you, game on. This being a restaurant, there's probably chairs and tables and things around, and nothing more than a good shove in a smart direction is all that you'd probably need. "He was threatening my child" makes a great defense in the event an injury occurs.
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  7. #82
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    I would not draw. I'd have myself between the offender and my child and try and defuse the situation calmly. If he tries to lay a hand on me or my child he may have difficulty laying a hand on anything in the near future... I like breaking fingers, wrist and arms :)
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    ....
    You do not have the luxury of pride when you are carrying a firearm.
    ....
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie1826 View Post
    +1
    Its called escalating the situation, DONT DO IT. When they become a physical threat then respond, until then just be the bigger man and ignore it.
    ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

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    Absolutely!

    In many States, if you escalate the situation, you have an absolute obligation to flee/try to disengage/etc before using deadly force.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    At the first outburst contact the waitress/management and advise them of a hostile patron, its their job to handle unruly customers. Do not engage him verbally at all. If he makes threats and approaches, do whatever is necessary. That does not include drawing a weapon initially.
    ^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^


    Also, the people with the child were/have been there long enough to recieve their food, they didn't just waltz in with screamer in tow.

    Do not speak to them directly in any threatening manner, except to say you are trying to appease the child to the best of you ability


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  10. #85
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    I can't stand when people are disrespectful to folks with children. Seeing as all of us adults were children at one time, and without children the human race would could not continue to be exsistent. Several posters have made comments along the lines of "why would you bring a screaming child into a resteraunt? ". I wouldn't walk in with my daughter screaming, I'd calm her down first, should she not calm down, we would go home (Or one of us, my wife or me, whomever isn't calming down our daughter would go in and get carry-out food.). And 90% of the time when we are out and about, shes quiet. So if you HAPPEN to be around us when she feels like being fussy, I'm sorry. You probable annoyed grownups when you cried as a baby once. Get over it.

    I donot like when people bring very unruly totts, and small children and donot discipline them in public. I manage the front desk at an automotive shop, and have seen kids reak pure havok on our lobby/showroom and the parents have no reguard for us having to clean up their kids mess, wich is irritating. That is more along the lines of dispresectful parents, I don't blame the children. I imagine their homelife isn't much different sadly.

    I really don't eat out much, we order in or do takeout so if our daughter does get fussy, its not bothering folks, and we can enjoy our meal more. If I do eat out,its with my family, in a group of 8-12....wich I don't think anyone would try to confront a group that large lol.

  11. #86
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    First I will answer about the actions proposed by the OP and the guy who is bothered by the child. There is virtually no way they are going to "quiet" my child down for me. The manager of the restuarant may be called the police may be called, or there might be some force used to stop it from happening. It all depends on how big of set the guy decided to have. Am I going to argue with him, nope, am I going to let him know it would be a bad idea on his part to try to "quiet" my child, yep.

    As far as unruly children. Well I have left exactly one restuarant in my time parenting. That was when my son was less than 1 year old and he had an ear infection we found out about later. We asked for our food to be boxed up to go before they brought it to the table. My son knows better than to act up in public much less at home.

    Other children, that is another story. Just this past Sunday we went to CrackerBarrel and had the unpleasant experience of sitting next to a set of grandparents with what appeared to be their daughter and two grandsons. If they were my sons, one would have gotten a serious attitude adjustment, and the other would have gotten scolded for making such a mess with his food, his crayons, the golf tee game, everything he came into contact with. My son just sat in amazement that other kids close to his age are allowed to act that way. My mother in law asked my wife why my son had such a look on his face. My wife's response was that Joseph was probably wondering how large of a butt whooping he would be getting about this time.

    I have no tollerance for that type of behavior or parenting.

    However, we have some friends who have an autistic son. Do their son's outbursts bother me, absolutely not. This wasn't their child but, one evening at a Italian restuarant there was a family about 15 to 20 feet away from us that had a son who clearly had some medical issues. My guess is that he was autistic as well. He made sudden outbursts, and was loud on occasion etc. Did it bother me or my wife, nope. My son asked about it and I told him that the boy had some problems that were most likely medical, stop looking at him and go back to eating your dinner.

    There is no reason that family should not be able to go and eat a good meal other than McDonalds with their family. I don't fault them one bit for doing so. That is much more tolerable than a bunch of cackling women, or folks that show up with a whole bottle of perfume or cologne, or freaking cat hair all over them that makes me sneeze for the rest of the evening.
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  12. #87
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    Good post farronwolf.
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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #88
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    The guy is making an empty threat and has no intention of actually touching a child - nobody is that stupid. Responding with deadly force is WAY out of line. He is trying to express intense displeasure at what he thinks is parents unwilling to control their child. Parents seem to get deaf about the noise a child makes and don't seem to understand, and sometimes even care, that their disruptive child is ruining the dining experience of other patrons. A good tell is if the other patrons are cheering him on or not. Best response to the situation is to actually listen to what he is saying and actually try to quiet your child. If you find that impossible to do, try to be considerate of others and leave.

  14. #89
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurgDog View Post
    The guy is making an empty threat and has no intention of actually touching a child - nobody is that stupid.
    PLENTY of people are that stupid.

    I have personally witnessed such a person do that to a child in my group at a restaurant table. And why not? Injecting a bit of forcible escalation to a situation to drive home a point isn't illegal, and many males with an overdeveloped sense of machismo-cum-trailer-trash-itis believe that chest pounding in such situations is a legitimate way to get things moving. If you haven't seen such things, good for you. But it does exist, sadly. To be fair, I haven't seen this in many years, so perhaps it's petering out ... though, I doubt it.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurgDog View Post
    The guy is making an empty threat and has no intention of actually touching a child - nobody is that stupid.
    I will not bet my grandson's life on how stupid someone may or may not be. If he threatens my grandson I will place myself between him and my grandson. If he moves toward me I will meet the threat with what force may be necessary.

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