I know I will probably get some argument for that ^ but that's my opinion as a soon to be father.
This is a discussion on Man threatening to "help quiet down" a loud obnoxious toddler scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MattInFla Life imitates DC: Well, there you go....
I know I will probably get some argument for that ^ but that's my opinion as a soon to be father.
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It depends on the restaurant. If you are in a "family" type restaurant, then you need to expect that there will be families present with kids, who will make a bit of noise.
Now, with that said, a parent should remove a child who is having a meltdown and really disturbing other patrons.
However, if it is a fine dining restaurant, then IMO you have a right to expect not to be disturbed by kids. Even so, there is no way I would have ever permitted an angry person to get close to my kids, or today, close to my grandkids.
As a sidenote, after my kids were adults and we were long past the child rearing stage, I would refuse to be seated next to a family with kids.
But, after we became grandparents, my attitude changed completely, and now smile at the kids and hardly notice the noise.
"It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."
J. R. R. Tolkien
I didn't read through all 7 pages of these posts so excuse me if I'm repeating what someone else already said.
I'm not "anti-kid", having raised 4 kids of my own I know how trying it can be at times, however; I have never allowed one of my kids (no matter their age), to become disruptive in a restaurant. During the infant stages if one of my kids was fussing, either myself or my wife would take the kid outside until they stopped crying or screeching. If we were out there for awhile then we would take turns. There were lots of places we didn't go to due to the fact that our infant wasn't "manageable". It's the price of being a parent.
Just last week I was out with my teenage daughter and wife at a fairly nice restaurant and seated next to us was a family with a child that looked to be a year or so old. Mom thought it was cute to tease the kid with finger food until he emitted a loud ear piercing screech, she would then give the kid a bite. Mom and dad were probably sensitized to the sound, but to me, it was like someone dragging their fingernails on a chalkboard. I have no problem with kids laughing and cutting up but this was a death scream....We didn't feel it was our place to say anything so we just ate as quickly as possible and got out of there, but it pretty much ruined our night out as we couldn't even carry on a conservation at our table.
For all the folks that say it's their right to sit there with a kid that's pitching a fit, well that's great....you have the "right" to do many things but it's like farting in a crowded elevator, take a look around and see if exercising your "right" at that particular moment is bothering other people. That's what polite people do......
Last edited by Rotorblade; August 9th, 2010 at 08:47 AM. Reason: typo
It Just Happened! Two weeks after this thread started, it really happened in a Florida Olive Garden!
Well folks, for anyone thinking this was kind of a silly circumstance, on July, 7th 2010 it just happened in a Florida Olive Garden in Boynton Beach.
A man who was complaining about the behavior of children at the restaurant all of a sudden got up and assaulted the father of the autistic child.
See story below.
Weston man arrested for alleged assault at Boynton Beach Olive Garden
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
I guess I have to ask ... what's your point ?
It's all been said. # 1 ... parents have to determine if their child's behavior is appropriate for the "type" of restaurant they are going to , and to maintain reasonable control of it while there. IF it's a family restaurant, expect it. But, if it's not..... then take the kid outside or don't bring them along.
It's the same with adults, there are places you expect them to be loud and boisterious.... sports grills, ones with bars in them, etc. .... and other's where they need to act differently ... such as nicer dining establishments. You don't want a drunk in a family restaurant either around kids.... so.... it's all a matter of "expectations" to the type of place you are at.
Obviously one person's expectations were different than the others.... and one of them may have been better off eating in a different dining atmosphere that was more suited to their expectations.
But, don't blame the kid. Blame the guy making the complaint and the parents, one of them ended up in the wrong place for the type of restaurant they were at.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
dang some of you beat me too it.....
Yeah it happened in Olive Garden down in South Florida. No guns were involved though.
Agreed, that police can be much more responsive in such a situation where a business owner is requesting assistance. Particularly if one's family is there, it's important to ensure they're protected from any violence. Can't easily do that when one is right in the thick of it. A lot depends on timing and what's said. Sometimes, it boils over instantaneously and there is simply no time to call anyone. Those in-your-face types don't see anything precluding their intervention, and the threat can jump from non-existent to immediate pretty darned quickly.
Most real problems are when two arse-holes go at each other. Usually two testosterone driven men, very rare to see women do this.
Only correct thing to do is complain to management. It is their responsibility to balance the cost of kicking out and possibly losing a disruptive customer against losing business from the annoyed customers. This applies to more than just out of control kids - it applies to anyone whose behavior is beyond what management will tolerate. If management says "suck it up" and you are still annoyed, leave. If management asks the disruptive patron to leave and they don't, then the police get called.
As an aside, I am not well off. A visit to a family restaurant is a treat for me and I can't afford more upscale fare. I try to avoid "kids eat free" days and request seating away from children. So far I have had very few problems with disruptive children ruining my dining experience - which is mostly enjoying the food, talking to my wife and hearing what she is saying.
IMB, it's a public disturbance and the idiot should be called on it. If I have to hand out a beat down so be it, but I'd rather leave that to the Leo's whenever possible. I get what you're saying about providing immediate protection and as far as I'm concerned that's a given 24/7 365 so basically the guy would never get the chance to harm my family. I guess what it boils down to is, I'm lazy I'd rather leave the hostile folks to the LEO's and not scrap with um unless I'm absolutely pressed with little to no options. If the dude gets violent and it looks like a member of my family could get hurt, I'd have no problem putting the dude down.
I, for one, dislike any loud talk and especially cell phone use in a restaurant.
I put mine on vibrate, screen & ignore most calls and if I "must" take a call, I go outside for the conversation. If anything, I think that cell phones and loud talk are more inexcusable than a disruptive child.
The parents of a disruptive child should, IMHO, be grant a reasonable time to deal with the situation before labeling them as selfish boors.
OTOH, adults who use cell phones or talk loud have no excuse.
People who seem to think that they, for what ever reason, have the right to disturb others in a public place (church, theater, restaurant, etc) are simply boorish, at best. Consideration for others and common courtesy, respect, civility are, unfortunately, not all that common.
OTOH, none of that justifies anyone threating the child, cell phone boor or loud talk boor.
And as I said in the other thread two wrongs don't make a right -- even if one of the wrongs is far more egregious.
Last edited by DaveH; August 12th, 2010 at 05:11 PM. Reason: typo
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
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A man a few tables over turns and orders you to control that baby of yours and stop the noise.
My response: Mind your own business.
A few moments later the man again raises his voice and demands that you "quiet down your kid or else I'll have to do it for you".
My response: I'm standing up ready to meet the threat head on! I'll begin to explain to him that he is about to make a very serious mistake!
The man is now furious. He gets up from his chair, says "I warned your sorry a**. Someone needs to teach this kid a lesson here" and begins his approach towards your family in a threatening manner.
My response: If he gets within striking distance he is getting hit with everything I got. If he produces a weapon mine will be in my hand as well.
So far after 8 years of occaisional dining out no one has been put out by either of my kids. As parents, we're doing an OK job I guess, and the kids for the most part behave themselves. We've had a few instances early on where we left if things got out hand. Most responsible parents would do this, or take steps to try try and quiet things down. Some folks out there, and it seems to be the folks who have no kids, have a low tolerance for any disruption. My advice for them is, if you see parents trying to keep things under control, cut 'em some slack. They are likely doing their best.
Now, for whatever reason if things escalate to the description of the OP, I'll meet whatever happens with equal force. He will not reach my kid(s). In any kind of retaurant or bar disturbance I have seen, the staff don't usually do much, so I will not depend on them for anything except to call the police. No gun is necessary unless a weapon is presented on his part, or if for some reason his entourage (if present) decides to weigh in, skewing the balance of force.
Been some interesting replies though...like Tubby 45 response (I'd like to understand how YOU didn't end up in jail) and Vaquero's Kirky award........AWESOME!