The Supermarket - Page 4

The Supermarket

This is a discussion on The Supermarket within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Shooting someone in the back through the shoulder with a service caliber is going to stop the fight. I wouldn't be willing to bet the ...

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 72

Thread: The Supermarket

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Shooting someone in the back through the shoulder with a service caliber is going to stop the fight.
    I wouldn't be willing to bet the ranch on that.

    Biker


  2. #47
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I wouldn't be willing to bet the ranch on that.

    Biker
    How about a small home garden? Would you be willing to bet a small home garden?

    Just bustin your chops Biker. I'm with you! Shoot center mass and you're less likely to miss the target altogether!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    Any justified and necessary back shot I'm looking for a spine hit.

  4. #49
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ky.
    Posts
    1,890
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Any justified and necessary back shot I'm looking for a spine hit.
    You know I'm really not disagreeing with COM shots. I was just thinking along the lines of shoot to stop the threat vs shoot to kill.

  5. #50
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    You know I'm really not disagreeing with COM shots. I was just thinking along the lines of shoot to stop the threat vs shoot to kill.
    A shot to the spine is a superb fight stopper as it causes immediate paralysis and is frequently not a fatal injury.

    btw... there are several major blood vessels in the area of the shoulder which would cause a person to bleed out in a matter of two or three minutes, so your wounding or "stopping" shot is just as likely to have a lethal effect as any other shot. All it takes is for the bullet itself, or a bone fragment from a shattered scapula to sever a subclavian artery or any of several others and they are toast in just a couple of minutes.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #51
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    A shot to the spine is a superb fight stopper as it causes immediate paralysis and is frequently not a fatal injury.

    btw... there are several major blood vessels in the area of the shoulder which would cause a person to bleed out in a matter of two or three minutes, so your wounding or "stopping" shot is just as likely to have a lethal effect as any other shot. All it takes is for the bullet itself, or a bone fragment from a shattered scapula to sever a subclavian artery or any of several others and they are toast in just a couple of minutes.
    There lies the crux of the problem. You have at most, seconds.

    Biker

  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,476
    While I may target the spine with a justified back shot I will be shooting more than one shot. My goal is to take the BG out of the fight as soon as possible. If he should die from those hits he was the one who chose to start the whole affair
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    Agreed. I see two primary factors in the number of shots. How fast I squeeze and how fast he falls. As long as he is verticle the threat remains, possibly even when horizontal.

  9. #54
    Member Array arffdog875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    170
    ++++++1 with First Sgt... again... if I am confronting the BG, the BG is not complying, I am shooting until there is NO more threat! I am NOT shooting to wound him or shooting him in the leg to slow him down...NOPE, I am shooting until the threat is gone! Period! IMO
    God Bless the troops...especially the snipers!
    -LaRue Tactical -

  10. #55
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    the North East
    Posts
    552
    Call 911, try to get people out of the store. Engaging a person with a shotgun with a handgun is not my idea of fun or a something I would get involved in. to much self preservation in me.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    I would think that your wife's response to your response would be a hazard to your self preservation, considering the jeopardy that her sister was in.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,481
    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    You know I'm really not disagreeing with COM shots. I was just thinking along the lines of shoot to stop the threat vs shoot to kill.
    Shooting to wound is an interesting definition of shooting to "stop the threat." I know that if I am "wounded" in an altercation with a BG, and I still have the ability to be a threat... I will be. I would assume the same from the BG's perspective.

    Stopping the threat, to me, means shooting to guarantee there is no threat... Unless the BG throws down his arms... he is still a potential threat. Even if I've shot him in the shoulder that controls the "primary weapon" (the shotgun slung on his strong side), that does not mean he won't spin (gee, did I cause that with my little 9mm?!) and draw, weak hand, another weapon; firing as he is turning ... endangering me and bystanders?

    My training (limited as it is) has led me to believe that shooting to "stop the threat" means at least 2 COM, with followup to the head if possible... The threat is not stopped until he has no weapons to use on me or is totally unable to use them.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  13. #58
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ky.
    Posts
    1,890
    I'm not trying to argue but why is it that we 'shoot to stop a threat" but don't "shoot to kill". Two COM shots followed by a head shot would more than likely be fatal. Is that not the standard that most allude too? Some seem to think that after 2+1 if the B.G. dies it's "oh well that's what happens". Let's tell it like it really is and that is, we shoot to kill. I've got no problem with that. I just thought that taking a relatively easy wounding type shot might be more appealing to some forum members.

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,481
    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I'm not trying to argue but why is it that we 'shoot to stop a threat" but don't "shoot to kill". Two COM shots followed by a head shot would more than likely be fatal. Is that not the standard that most allude too? Some seem to think that after 2+1 if the B.G. dies it's "oh well that's what happens". Let's tell it like it really is and that is, we shoot to kill. I've got no problem with that. I just thought that taking a relatively easy wounding type shot might be more appealing to some forum members.
    I understand what you are saying.

    This is why I "shoot to stop the threat" instead of "shoot to kill"

    "... I do"
    "please be seated"
    "Is it true, Mr. Oak, that when you engaged my client's husband and the father of their 4 children, You "shot to kill?""
    "No sir, that is not true"
    "Well then, Mr. Oak, How do you explain the two rounds that went through my client's husband's chest, mortally wounding him, and another round that went through his head?"
    "I shot to stop the threat, sir"
    "Wasn't the "threat" over when he started falling to the floor after the two shots?"
    "No, sir. He stilll had his weapon in his hand, and was coming towards me."
    "You mean falling to the floor, mortally wounded, don't you Mr. Oak?"
    "No sir, from my viewpoint, he was still coming toward me with his weapon in hand... I was in fear of my life, and I shot again, that is when he fell, sir. I fired until he was no longer a threat, and I was no longer in fear of my life."

    Now obviously, this is a best case scenario from a civil suit following the action... But I was never taught to shoot to kill... I was taught to stop the threat... That's what I will try to do.

    As to the testimony... If the lawyer suing me wants just yes or no answers.. that's what he'll get... but only if he asks questions based on the FACTS of the case...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    It is a semantical word game brought about by our PC environment.
    With that said, it is prudent to CYA whenever possible.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. New Supermarket
    By SIGP250 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: August 10th, 2010, 12:42 AM
  2. Missouri Supermarket comes around on CCW...
    By jmc0106 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: June 18th, 2010, 05:24 PM
  3. USPS in Supermarket
    By Old goat in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: January 11th, 2008, 12:56 AM
  4. Supermarket encounter
    By Lochinver in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: May 17th, 2007, 07:43 PM
  5. Supermarket Confrontation
    By Shekkian in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: March 27th, 2007, 09:23 PM