appt scenario

This is a discussion on appt scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So there you are asleep on your couch about 2 in the morning or so. Your feet are comfortably places on your little tv tray, ...

Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: appt scenario

  1. #1
    Member Array fitznig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    280

    appt scenario

    So there you are asleep on your couch about 2 in the morning or so.
    Your feet are comfortably places on your little tv tray, desk top dealy, from within you have a gun in the drawer.
    When suddenly you are awaken with a crash thru the window.
    You jump, and look up to see a bad guy with crow bar inside your appt.
    You hesitate for a second with the ackward look at each other, reach for your gun, get it, as he runs towards you, fire 5 times quiclky, missing three, but hitting the bad guy twice killing him or injuring him what ever.

    BUT the 3 bullets that missed.....went out the window into the parking lot and just so happened to hit a mom and kid coming back from a long vacation (only reason i can come up with for a kid to be up that late and mom together).

    The kid dies, but the mom lives.

    NOW THEN, since your appt was being robbed, your life was in danger becuz this bad guy was on your property, you shot killed him but missed 3 times, and your bullets went out the window and killed innocent victems.

    Are you responsible for the death of the kid, like would you go to jail for murder, or would the law be forgiving since your life was in danger and you had no choice but to shoot??????

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    443
    You are responsible for every round that leaves the muzzle regardless of the intent, and yes you could be charged with man slaughter or murder depending on where you live. Its my opinion that it should rest on the shoulders of the BG as it was his fault you shot in the first place but this ain't Walgreens.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Rainy ol' Seattle, WA
    Posts
    577
    I agree. The bad guy should be liable. When 2 guys rob a store and one is killed by the owner, the other gets charged with manslaughter. Should be the same with the bg. Crappy situation though. Practise that shot placement guys.
    "In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N

  5. #4
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,817
    Are you responsible for the death of the kid, like would you go to jail for murder, or would the law be forgiving since your life was in danger and you had no choice but to shoot??????
    You are responsible.

    The "LAW" would nail your butt to the wall.

    Although it could be argued that the " intent" was not there, at the very least you would be charged with Manslaughter or depending on what state you are in Reckless Homicide.

    Think about it. You saved yourself, killed someone that needed it, but you took the life of an innocent and altered the path of the mother forever. Was it worth it ?

    You would be sued and what little you had would be gone in legal fees, and settlements.You would have a criminal record the rest of your life. An unfortunate incident to be sure, but one that would change your life till the day you die.

  6. #5
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,059
    I'm not sure it would be quite that bad. It would likely be a real civil ordeal though. There was no criminal intent. I'll be curious to hear what the legal eagles have to say about this one.
    I honestly don't know.
    I'm sure there there are some legal precedents though...like a bullet passing through an apartment wall & killing a person in an adjoining apartment.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  7. #6
    Member Array fitznig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    280
    its things like this that make me thankful i live in the woods, away from neighbors, where bad guys have to pass 3 German dogs, and 6 acres of property with motion sensor lights.

  8. #7
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    15,816
    Criminal might depend on what state you reside, but no matter what, civilly you would lose everything.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  9. #8
    Member Array calireserve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    135
    The good thing is at least you would be alive to attend your trial!!!!! But I agree with Rocky, You would probably loose everything in a civil trial. Even if you came out of the civil trial with a victory it would cost you a fortune in lawyer fees!!!!!

  10. #9
    Senior Moderator
    Array MattInFla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,857
    Quote Originally Posted by fitznig
    So there you are asleep on your couch about 2 in the morning or so.
    Your feet are comfortably places on your little tv tray, desk top dealy, from within you have a gun in the drawer.
    When suddenly you are awaken with a crash thru the window.
    You jump, and look up to see a bad guy with crow bar inside your appt.
    You hesitate for a second with the ackward look at each other, reach for your gun, get it, as he runs towards you, fire 5 times quiclky, missing three, but hitting the bad guy twice killing him or injuring him what ever.

    BUT the 3 bullets that missed.....went out the window into the parking lot and just so happened to hit a mom and kid coming back from a long vacation (only reason i can come up with for a kid to be up that late and mom together).

    The kid dies, but the mom lives.

    NOW THEN, since your appt was being robbed, your life was in danger becuz this bad guy was on your property, you shot killed him but missed 3 times, and your bullets went out the window and killed innocent victems.

    Are you responsible for the death of the kid, like would you go to jail for murder, or would the law be forgiving since your life was in danger and you had no choice but to shoot??????
    There are two sides to this coin, Criminal and Civil.

    Depending on where you live, the chances would seem to be good that you would not be criminally charged. You did not discharge the firearm with any criminal intent, but rather to save your own life.

    Civilly, you are 100% responsible for every round that leave the muzzle. Plan on losing your shirt. And the closet it is in.

    Matt

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    568

    Tough one

    Alsthough you did not intend to shoot the kid and mom, the fact is you did. And accidentally shooting someone (unless you happen to be Dick Cheney) can land you in criminal legal hot water.

    As a kid was killed, they will try to hit you with manslaughter (which you are technically guilty of. You fired the shots.) or even reckless homicide. They will want to know why you fired five times. They will find out how much training you have had. Too much and they will want to know why you missed. Too little, and they will want to know why you fired so 'recklessly'.

    The fact that trained cops miss with 80 percent (soemething like that I heard) of their shots in shootouts will often be overlooked.

    The other thing to consider is, even if you escaped jail, and if by some miracle you didn't get sued, you would have to live with the fact that you killed this kid and destroyed the mother. That is going to be very hard and for some people impossible.

    So, the point really is make sure you don't miss. Don't blaze away with 5 shots if you cant keep them on target. Easier said than done, but you have pointed out the possible consequences of missing.

    That takes practice. If you know that when you fire 5 rapid shots, the last couple go wide, learn to fire 3, re-acquire the target and then fire some more. It shouldn't take more than a partial second to re-acquire the target.

    And before anyone give me the old chestnut about a fraction of a second being crucial, I agree. But better a fraction of a second reacquiring than even more time missing.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Battle Creek, Mi.
    Posts
    2,285
    What they said +1
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. What would you do? ATM scenario
    By python2 in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: January 17th, 2007, 11:52 AM
  2. Unlikely scenario
    By paramedic70002 in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: November 22nd, 2006, 12:56 PM
  3. Scenario: ACTUAL Scenario
    By QKShooter in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: May 2nd, 2005, 02:31 PM
  4. Scenario: Tactical scenario, true story
    By Hotelcharlie in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: February 24th, 2005, 01:38 PM
  5. Scenario: At the 7-11
    By acparmed in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: February 23rd, 2005, 12:02 AM