In the mall

This is a discussion on In the mall within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Being in the mall, the entire store front is glass and the glass door is in the middle, so no concealment is possible. To take ...

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Thread: In the mall

  1. #16
    Member Array OldLincoln's Avatar
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    Being in the mall, the entire store front is glass and the glass door is in the middle, so no concealment is possible. To take action requires surprise and the BG is obviously focused on the store guys. So open the door and listen to the chimes sound drawing the clerk's focus to you along with the BG. SO... if you are going to take action know you are committed before you begin. No time to decide later. Oh, and be aware that you will be shot at and possibly hit. The BG has been in prison half his life and determined he won't go back.

    On the other hand, you can take camera phone video to support the store video and call 911 from where you are outside the store. Being in contact and giving them a recorded report of the action will aid in the prosecution if there is one.

    I prefer the second option because 1) I am not out to protect the general population by shooting bad guys. As a good citizen you can report the incident and be a good witness. 2) You will go downtown, have you gun confiscated (probably permanently), leaving your family unprotected. 3) If your actions go to trial you will hire an expensive attorney and spend a lot of time off work.

    My philosophy is to generally behave as I would if not armed unless my family is in jeopardy, unless it's the BG's shooting everybody in sight and then I have to act. This one has people already shot and knowing more will follow. I don't believe the consequences in my second option would apply. They'd take my gun as evidence but I'd probably get one in return, if not I'd go on TV and complain asking for gun donations.

    Now the above is only MY opinion, but if you must flame go ahead, I'm fireproof.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldLincoln View Post
    Being in the mall, the entire store front is glass and the glass door is in the middle, so no concealment is possible. To take action requires surprise and the BG is obviously focused on the store guys. So open the door and listen to the chimes sound drawing the clerk's focus to you along with the BG. SO... if you are going to take action know you are committed before you begin. No time to decide later. Oh, and be aware that you will be shot at and possibly hit. The BG has been in prison half his life and determined he won't go back.

    On the other hand, you can take camera phone video to support the store video and call 911 from where you are outside the store. Being in contact and giving them a recorded report of the action will aid in the prosecution if there is one.

    I prefer the second option because 1) I am not out to protect the general population by shooting bad guys. As a good citizen you can report the incident and be a good witness. 2) You will go downtown, have you gun confiscated (probably permanently), leaving your family unprotected. 3) If your actions go to trial you will hire an expensive attorney and spend a lot of time off work.

    My philosophy is to generally behave as I would if not armed unless my family is in jeopardy, unless it's the BG's shooting everybody in sight and then I have to act. This one has people already shot and knowing more will follow. I don't believe the consequences in my second option would apply. They'd take my gun as evidence but I'd probably get one in return, if not I'd go on TV and complain asking for gun donations.

    Now the above is only MY opinion, but if you must flame go ahead, I'm fireproof.
    While I may not choose the same course of action of another person on the injection of ones self into hazardous situations, I do make a concerted effort not to flame them. I consider it their right, based on all the factors in their life to determine their own course of action.

    First
    While that arrangement you describe may be possible, most of the mall jewelery stores I have seen in malls do not have swinging doors, they have roll up grates like most of the other mall stores. Some have half walls to provide for window displays.
    There is always the possibility you will be shot when engaging in a potential gunfight.
    I expect that type of determination from any armed felon.

    Two
    He sees you outside recording and shoots you down.

    Three
    1) If that is your choice, I'm fine with that.
    2) Mostly speculation so I won't comment.
    3) On the basis of the situation as presented, the odds of that are very small.

    Last
    I see very little difference in possible consequences between this and the original situation and even in this one I highly doubt that you would get a gun in return for yours.

    A difference of opinion, but no flaming.

  4. #18
    Member Array OldLincoln's Avatar
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    And I respect your opinion also.

  5. #19
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    Hide yourself and call 911. In the mall with a gun drawn is likely going to get you shot. In all probability, an alarm has be sent, and you do not want to be seen as an armed individual as cops enter the mall.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Tell the wife to beat feet as fast as she can and call 911 on her cell, advise what is happening and my description and clothing.

    Better hope they don't mistake your description for the bad guys. I'd leave that part out and also not have a weapon in your hand when the police come.
    "When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the government fears the people you have liberty."


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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigman232 View Post
    Better hope they don't mistake your description for the bad guys. I'd leave that part out and also not have a weapon in your hand when the police come.
    Received in the spirit I believe it was given, all I will say is thank you.

    In response to this and Retsup99's post. Having seen the incident from its inception, when the robber drew his gun, I would estimate probably 20 to 30 seconds have expired. Based on my intended action, I expect that the whole thing will be over in another 20 or so seconds. IF the alarm has been pushed, even with a Cop Shop in the mall, I think the possibility of police confrontation befor the situation is over is extremely unlikely. If not, obviously, action to minimize the confrontation with police would be prudent.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Tell the wife to beat feet as fast as she can and call 911 on her cell, advise what is happening and my description and clothing. I seriously doubt that they will arrive befor its over, but that's ok.

    Draw and move to the door. Using the doorway as cover/concealment, take a bead on him and yell, "Hey". There is a very high probability that when he turns to look/confront his gun will also, moving off the victim. Shoot until the threat is gone.

    In my opinion, this. Good witness and all that be darned. I'm not going to watch someone die when I could stop it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    Lets see, he has already shown he is willing to do serious injury by pistol whipping one associate. He now has a gun aimed at another person. I think in this case I would not bother to yell "Hey" and draw his attention. Why would I want to give him a chance to send a round toward me?
    This idea is to get him to move the gun off the employee and fire immediately after. We don't want him inadvertently squeezing the trigger on him/her.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Draw and move to the door. Using the doorway as cover/concealment, take a bead on him and yell, "Hey". There is a very high probability that when he turns to look/confront his gun will also, moving off the victim. Shoot until the threat is gone.
    This, but I wouldn't yell "hey"... by him not having his attention on you, you can take as many seconds as you need to line up the pefect shot, when you yell "hey" you have just used your one and only "element of surprise card".

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I can understand your reasoning for that.
    An unknown is how soon he might shoot the clerk.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    When do you put on your CCW sash??
    This is a trick question. The CCW sash to be to be worn prominently whenever you carry.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Tell the wife to beat feet as fast as she can and call 911 on her cell, advise what is happening and my description and clothing. I seriously doubt that they will arrive befor its over, but that's ok.

    Draw and move to the door. Using the doorway as cover/concealment, take a bead on him and yell, "Hey". There is a very high probability that when he turns to look/confront his gun will also, moving off the victim. Shoot until the threat is gone.
    Exactly!
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    I might try for a side of the head/temple shot to put im down instantly. Perhaps someone else can confirm if this is the best shot to avoid him pulling the trigger on the clerk out of reflex when he gets hit.
    No real way to tell if that would work. It is equally likely that a head shot will cause reflex flexion of the index finger and result in a shot being fired; however, the aim is likely to be disrupted (but maybe not). What you see on TV is some guy taking a head shot then looking puzzled and slowly collapsing to the floor. What really happens is full collapse - like a marionette having the stirngs cut, if and only if, the motor center is damaged.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    If I thought the bad guy was about to shoot one of the employees and I had a clear shot I would take it. Otherwise I would be a good witness. In the mean time I would get my wife out of the area and have her call 911. My gun would stay holstered otherwise. you never know when the cops might show up and you could find your self being the target.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Tell the wife to beat feet as fast as she can and call 911 on her cell, advise what is happening and my description and clothing. I seriously doubt that they will arrive befor its over, but that's ok.

    Draw and move to the door. Using the doorway as cover/concealment, take a bead on him and yell, "Hey". There is a very high probability that when he turns to look/confront his gun will also, moving off the victim. Shoot until the threat is gone.
    +1, Mr. G.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Received in the spirit I believe it was given, all I will say is thank you.

    In response to this and Retsup99's post. Having seen the incident from its inception, when the robber drew his gun, I would estimate probably 20 to 30 seconds have expired. Based on my intended action, I expect that the whole thing will be over in another 20 or so seconds. IF the alarm has been pushed, even with a Cop Shop in the mall, I think the possibility of police confrontation befor the situation is over is extremely unlikely. If not, obviously, action to minimize the confrontation with police would be prudent.
    LOL When I saw the word INCEPTION I automatically thought of the movie with the same name! You can imagine the permutations of THAT idea!
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