Not my job

This is a discussion on Not my job within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If that stranger was foolish enough to not be concerned who am I to assume the mantle of protection for him? It was his responsibility, ...

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 157
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: Not my job

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    If that stranger was foolish enough to not be concerned who am I to assume the mantle of protection for him? It was his responsibility, and he ignored it, thus he should pay the price for doing so. Sometimes the price is high, sometimes it's not.
    So in other words. if you are foolish enough to get caught off guard.....you don't want anyone to come help you out? because that would be hypocritical otherwise
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    charleston, SC
    Posts
    1,849
    It is like the old adage coming out of the Supreme Court on pornography. "You WILL know it when you see it". In SC we have the alter ego rule, which loosely refers to the idea that if you see an act of violence perpetrated on someone else and IF it were you instead of them would you feel that you would have been in imminent danger of great bodily injury or death. Keeping that in mind, "you will know it when you see it". The only problem is that you can never be certain of what is truly going on in other peoples' activities and affairs and your decision had better be based on an absolute of "imminent danger of great bodily injury or death" and nothing else.

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,970
    The only problem is that you can never be certain of what is truly going on in other peoples' activities and affairs and your decision had better be based on an absolute of "imminent danger of great bodily injury or death" and nothing else.
    How about you spot some punk kids breaking car windows on your block? There are no specific Do's and Don'ts regarding when you ought to step up to guard your neighborhood or community. Extreme caution is warranted when a man and woman, or an adult and a child, appear to be having some kind of conflict. LEOs are often at grave risk when entering domestic disputes, and the record is very clear on that. I think that "don't be an idiot" is the guiding rule.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  5. #34
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,098
    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    So in other words. if you are foolish enough to get caught off guard.....you don't want anyone to come help you out
    I certainly wouldn't expect it and I'd be amazed if it happened

  6. #35
    Member Array yoyomeng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    93
    But what about those that are forced to think about the financial repercussions of stepping in? Or impact to their family? Or possible jail time cause they can't afford a lawyer? Life is so much more complicated these days.

    This applies to me; I can't afford a lawyer. I'd protect myself or family but would have to think twice before doing so for others. If the likely hood of legal involvement weren't so high then I'd have less fear of lending a hand.

    I've struggled with it as I'm inclined to help but.. there are so many but's. It is what it is ... and it sucks.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,169
    As for financial and legal problems after helping, that's very few and far between. Especially in states that protect like Florida and Texas and the many others. Most likely it's not going to happen. I've stated before that my Dad is an attorney and was high up in the LA County DA's office. I've asked him about this and he laughed and said that even out there (He's anything but the typical CA liberal) it's rare anymore that someone is sued while helping out. In the 80's though, he said he remembered many cases where the BG sued the home owner for medical bills, etc. That was then and not common now - relatively speaking. And that's in Los Angeles County.

    I think it's a valid concern, but way over thought.

    The problem here is nothing is black and white and I understand that. I think when I hear "in defense of another", I automatically think of a situation involving my child or Mother, etc. If I saw 2 guys going at it, I'd have no desire to get involved. If I saw some guy grabbing a child, I'd really want to get involved, but it could be a parent or many other situations. It's definitely a rough one. If I was at a bank and it was being robbed, seeing as only .01% end in violence, he can have the money.

    If I was at church early in the morning setting up for a fundraiser and heard the 80-year-old nun screaming for help then saw someone trying to rape her, I'd give him more than a stern talking to.....this happened here a few months ago and the nun somehow pulled a door handle off of a closet door and beat him in the face and head. A couple guys setting up heard the commotion and came over and tuned him up and held him for police. I'm searching Google, but can't find it....it was at Most Precious Blood here in Corpus.

    Biker, Retsupt, etc. I respect you guys, even you Biker after our go-arounds! This is such personal thing that you can't judge anyone on this, so that's not what this is... I completely understand not wanting to get involved, but if something happened like above and you heard an elderly woman / nun screaming for help, would you not help? I can't imagine that any of you wouldn't.

    Treo, I can't tell you how many gun owners I now that get their CHL's and feel the need to tell everyone they see. I think it's definitely a power thing and many like the thought of being the rescuer/hero.. It's all about doing the right thing and to each of us, that may be completely different.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  8. #37
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    you heard an elderly woman / nun screaming for help, would you not help?
    Only to the level I choose to.

    Besides, while the nun beat the guy off, she probably felt bad about it and prayed for the SOB's soul. I don't bother praying for the souls of my enemies, and a nun raper is my enemy.

    Biker

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florence, SC
    Posts
    7,967
    I read this once, and determined that these Virtues are those that would be good to follow in MY life. I make no pretense to be a Samurai. I'm too dang old! However, I have determined that I shall strive to do the best I can in life. Perhaps some of you might read these Virtues and see something of yourselves in one or more of them. This thread, as did the thread concerning children in restaurants, has amazed me as to the responses. I guess if I don't learn something daily, even if it's about my fellow human, then I'm walking around with my eyes closed and ear muffs on.

    Virtues of a Samurai

    I. Honesty and Justice
    Be acutely honest throughout your dealings with all people. Believe in Justice, not from other people, but from yourself. To the true samurai, there are no shades of grey in the question of honesty and justice. There is only right and wrong.

    II. Polite Courtesy
    Samurai have no reason to be cruel. They do not need to prove their strength. A samurai is courteous even to his enemies. Without this outward show of respect, we are nothing more than animals. A samurai is not only respected for his strength in battle, but also by his dealings with other men.

    III. Heroic Courage
    Rise up above the masses of people who are afraid to act. Hiding like a turtle in a shell is not living at all. A samurai must have heroic courage. It is absolutely risky. It is dangerous. It is living life completely, fully, wonderfully. Heroic courage is not blind. It is intelligent and strong.

    IV. Honor
    A true samurai has only one judge of honor, and this is himself. Decisions you make and how these decisions are carried out are a reflection of whom you truly are. You cannot hide from yourself.

    V. Compassion
    Through intense training the samurai becomes quick and strong. He is not as other men. He develops a power that must be used for the good of all. He has compassion. He helps his fellow man at every opportunity. If an opportunity does not arise, he goes out of his way to find one.

    VI. Complete Sincerity
    When a samurai has said he will perform an action, it is as good as done. Nothing will stop him from completing what he has said he will do. He does not have to "give his word." He does not have to "promise." Speaking and doing are the same actions.

    VII. Duty and Loyalty
    For the samurai, having done some "thing" or said some "thing," he knows he owns that "thing." He is responsible for it, and all the consequences that follow. A samurai is immensely loyal to those in his care. To those he is responsible for, he remains fiercely true.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    1,935
    There are some extreme and very obvious examples out there, but sadly, many examples aren't so clear cut.

    If I pulled up in my own yard and saw that some guy had knocked my door down and was walking away with my property, would I shoot him? No, unless he made a direct physical threat to me or my sons. Even if declared justified, I don't need 15 years of a legal headache, not to mention nightmares or the possibility of his friends or family coming after me, all over a stereo or some other possession. That's what insurance is for.

    Conversely, if I pulled up somewhere and saw that some nut had an AK and was shooting kids on a playground, even though I knew no one involved, then yeah, I would unload on him if possible.

    But unfortunately, a typical situation is more like.....you see where Stranger A is shooting at, hitting, throwing rocks at, or stabbing Stranger B, and this is where you had better watch yourself. Stranger A might be an undercover cop. Stranger B might have raped Stranger A's wife or daughter and you know nothing of it. It could simply be a drug deal gone bad and both have extensive criminal records. The bottom line is that you just don't know. Anyone can sit behind a computer screen and exude bravado, loudly proclaiming that "Well, if it were me, I WOULD....." But I would give extremely little regard to the opinion of an Internet poster from a prison cell.

    Never forget that you are legally and morally responsible for any bullet that leaves any gun, issued by you. That's the bottom line.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,169
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Only to the level I choose to.

    Besides, while the nun beat the guy off, she probably felt bad about it and prayed for the SOB's soul. I don't bother praying for the souls of my enemies, and a nun raper is my enemy.

    Biker
    Sounds good to me...

    A lot of times when I read a thread like this, I think of a clear cut, extreme example and it's obvious what most of us would do. I do understand the concern when it's not so clear cut..

    Found the story. I guess it wasn't a nun, but a 77 year old woman who volunteers there - http://www.kiiitv.com/news/local/592...corder=reverse

    This was a couple miles form my house and in a great neighborhood - at 7am. This is the stuff that gets me angry.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    536
    What would you do if you were walking through a medical facility...and heard a horrible scream...

    You go through a door, and there on the floor is a woman with a man on top of her with a knife...she has obviously been stabbed at least once and the man is raising his hand up with a knife apprently to stab her again...

    What would you do???


    http://wbztv.com/local/mass.general....2.1273746.html
    VCDL Member
    "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
    Theodore Roosevelt

  13. #42
    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Boise, Id
    Posts
    227
    All good points. Thanks for all the different points of view. What comes to my mind is the many images of prisioners who out numbers their guards by 1000 to 1 and being systemically killed because they won't rush the guard. I realize this is an extreme example and fortunately I've never been in that position. I have mentioned that I proudly display my NRA stickers and reference the second ammendment on my license plate frame on my car. I even have Kimber stickers in view. Some say they would not do that. I believe, and you can feel differently if you choose, that a big problem with this nation is that people are afraid to stand up for what they believe. How many of us did not vote in the last election because it doen't make a difference? How many of us keep our legal ownership of guns on the down low because we don't want others to know or offend them. One of the reason stupid laws are passed is because good honest people don't want to rock the boat. Until enough people get angry enought to march on Washington (either at the ballot box or down the middle of the street) things will not get better. I will not drink the Koolaid, I will not get on the truck, I will not let some BG hurt me or others if I can help it. BG's depend on people not getting involved. A few guns changed the way the Nazi's killed the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto. Maybe, just maybe, if all who see me know I have guns and they know I will try to help society be safer, because of them, I can deter one act of crime. We act like we can do noting to stop all the insanity. I tell the manager of the burger joint I resent being waited by by some freak with huge tatoos and piercings in his lips. I respectively resist. I suggest you do the same. Good people are still the majority.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    I read this once, and determined that these Virtues are those that would be good to follow in MY life. I make no pretense to be a Samurai. I'm too dang old! However, I have determined that I shall strive to do the best I can in life. Perhaps some of you might read these Virtues and see something of yourselves in one or more of them. This thread, as did the thread concerning children in restaurants, has amazed me as to the responses. I guess if I don't learn something daily, even if it's about my fellow human, then I'm walking around with my eyes closed and ear muffs on.

    Virtues of a Samurai

    I. Honesty and Justice
    Be acutely honest throughout your dealings with all people. Believe in Justice, not from other people, but from yourself. To the true samurai, there are no shades of grey in the question of honesty and justice. There is only right and wrong.

    II. Polite Courtesy
    Samurai have no reason to be cruel. They do not need to prove their strength. A samurai is courteous even to his enemies. Without this outward show of respect, we are nothing more than animals. A samurai is not only respected for his strength in battle, but also by his dealings with other men.

    III. Heroic Courage
    Rise up above the masses of people who are afraid to act. Hiding like a turtle in a shell is not living at all. A samurai must have heroic courage. It is absolutely risky. It is dangerous. It is living life completely, fully, wonderfully. Heroic courage is not blind. It is intelligent and strong.

    IV. Honor
    A true samurai has only one judge of honor, and this is himself. Decisions you make and how these decisions are carried out are a reflection of whom you truly are. You cannot hide from yourself.

    V. Compassion
    Through intense training the samurai becomes quick and strong. He is not as other men. He develops a power that must be used for the good of all. He has compassion. He helps his fellow man at every opportunity. If an opportunity does not arise, he goes out of his way to find one.

    VI. Complete Sincerity
    When a samurai has said he will perform an action, it is as good as done. Nothing will stop him from completing what he has said he will do. He does not have to "give his word." He does not have to "promise." Speaking and doing are the same actions.

    VII. Duty and Loyalty
    For the samurai, having done some "thing" or said some "thing," he knows he owns that "thing." He is responsible for it, and all the consequences that follow. A samurai is immensely loyal to those in his care. To those he is responsible for, he remains fiercely true.
    As part of my martial arts studies I too extensively study the code of Bushido
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    1,935
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveJay View Post
    What would you do if you were walking through a medical facility...and heard a horrible scream...

    You go through a door, and there on the floor is a woman with a man on top of her with a knife...she has obviously been stabbed at least once and the man is raising his hand up with a knife apprently to stab her again...

    What would you do???


    http://wbztv.com/local/mass.general....2.1273746.html
    It depends. Practically every medical facility in the country forbids weapons. So would I be carrying in this situation? Very unlikely. I think the best plan here is to call attention to what's happening and call 911 if possible. Remember that rape is an act of anger and/or domination. This might not be the case here, but the guy could easily kill the woman if you aren't careful.

    As a side note..... I read once that the police in the old Bowery section of New York had a unique plan if they came upon a live rape scene: they would throw rocks at the perp. Seriously. That's because if they confronted him directly, he could break the victim's neck and kill her.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array Dragman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Vandergrift PA
    Posts
    1,275
    I once broke up a fight were a very drunk large man was beating on his very drunk small girlfriend. I am telling you he was BEATING her!!! I pushed him off and he lunged at me so I dropped him only to get slapped by her for hitting her boyfriend! When the police showed up the woman who I was helping complained that I beat up her boyfriend! The officer could obviously see what had happend and told the woman that he would arrest both her and her boyfriend on many charges if she wanted to persue the assult by me. In the end I walked away scott free and so did they, but It could have costed me EVERYTHING!!!!! Would I do it again??? YEP cuz thats what makes america great, our people!
    To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

not my job

Click on a term to search for related topics.