Not my job

This is a discussion on Not my job within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; That is good for you, to stand up for your convictions. But in today's sue happy, liberal minded society, I am not sticking up for ...

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  1. #46
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    That is good for you, to stand up for your convictions. But in today's sue happy, liberal minded society, I am not sticking up for anyone but my family, close friends, the elderly or children. The rest of you are on your own, you had the adult choice to arm and defend yourself and train, I am not going to do it for you unless me or my own are in danger.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    It is nobodys job to defend anyone except the individual. However, in the perfect situation I would hope some would act. Im not wanting to get sued, but watching someone get hammered on, or even killed, is not me.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Both (or many) sides of this debate make many valid points. In todays society the good samaritian could easily find himslef in deep legal trouble with no public assistance to help with the fees. That is part of what the OP was getting at I think, or at least it's another area where our society may be slipping. Hero's used to be honored and respected, and communities took care of their own. There was no need for big brother to do it because your average joe blow man on the street was willing to step up and do what was right. I remember seeing old film footage of people cutting ice blocks out of the river here and hauling them into a storage building. These people were not empolyees of an ice company, but they knew if no one cut and hauled the ice, there wasn't going to be any come summer. It was just something communities did. Probably a lot of public property got repaired and built the same way.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I believe that a good number of people that carry concealed handguns get their feelings of being important from the fact that they are carrying a hand gun. I also believe that there are people participating in this forum that strap up every day and pray to God that today is the day they become the next Jeanne Assam. I also believe that some of them justify this fantasy to themselves by buying into the idea that we’re somehow morally obligated to intervene on another’s behalf just because we’re armed.
    There are people in my neighborhood who have said that they HOPE someone breaks into their home so they can shoot them. Like you say..a justified fantasy come true. I have seen people proudly display their gun openly in a public place for no other reason that it made them feel "important". I have questioned why anyone would want to walk around with an open carry even if the law allowed it. It certainly has a certain shock valve bringing them to the center of attention. "Look at me, I have a gun and you don't" type of attitude. They seem to enjoy it when someone asks..."are you a cop?" Their self image gets boosted when they are able to intimidate those who are afraid of guns.

    The ONLY reason for carrying a gun is for self protection. A gun should not be used to inflate your sense of power and self importance.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

  6. #50
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    I assume you've all heard of Kitty Genovese? This was the case that, although greatly exaggerated in the press, gave New Yorkers their reputation of, "don't get involved."

    Also remember that we carry guns and a gun can be a very permanent solution to a problem, more so than fists or clubs or whatever. Therefore, it is highly critical that we think before we get involved.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  7. #51
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    I read this once, and determined that these Virtues are those that would be good to follow in MY life. I make no pretense to be a Samurai. I'm too dang old! However, I have determined that I shall strive to do the best I can in life. Perhaps some of you might read these Virtues and see something of yourselves in one or more of them. This thread, as did the thread concerning children in restaurants, has amazed me as to the responses. I guess if I don't learn something daily, even if it's about my fellow human, then I'm walking around with my eyes closed and ear muffs on.

    Virtues of a Samurai.
    Bushido is just like the Ten Commandments, a wonderful philosophy of life that no one actually follows.

    I see any comparison between gun owners and Samurai as dangerous because IMO it fosters an attitude of elitism. This can be seen in the air of moral superiority that some of the participants in this thread are taking towards those of us who don’t carry to defend ‘the flock”

    When we (as permit holders) start thinking that that piece of paper (which isn't bullet proof BTW) invests us W/ some kind of police powers or duty to be the guardians of society I believe we are asking for trouble


    A samurai is immensely loyal to those in his care. To those he is responsible for, he remains fiercely true.
    Of course they were also known for killing the peasantry just because

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    , it is highly critical that we think before we get involved.
    This cannot be said enough...

    I don't look for situations to "get involved" in...but neither will I shy away if presented with one I feel I need to get involved in...

    BUT, BEFORE I GET INVOLVED, I WILL THINK FIRST...and thinking takes practice...

    JMHO....
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    Theodore Roosevelt

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I appreciate the quote from the Samurai Bushido. And, in all honesty, I could never live up to all of that... I have enough trouble with the 2 commandments.
    I beliEve in doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do...
    But, in the reality of today's world, doing that will just get me in trouble, broke, or dead.
    And, while living as an example would surely be noble, few would take notice or change their lives because of it.
    Last edited by oakchas; August 5th, 2010 at 05:10 PM.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  10. #54
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Here's another viewpoint to consider:

    http://www.stoppingpower.net/comment...tervention.asp

    I'm not saying I would never intervene, but my point is that this is a decision that must be weight VERY carefully. The consequences can be life-altering even if you "win" the confrontation.

    Matt
    Good Post! Definitely something t think about. If you pull your gun, whether or not you fire it, you have to be ready to go to court to defend your actions. better look into armedcitizensnetwork.org

  11. #55
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    The problem with the OP's well intentioned ethical viewpoint is the old saying, "let no good deed go unpunished." Or, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." These are sadly truisms. There is a disconnect between what our morals might dictate and what the law, after the fact, might decide--- at its leisure over many days of study and review of your (our) split second decisions.

    There have been a few times in my life when I have been in absolutely innocent situations which, had someone pushed to make me look guilty of something, could have easily been misconstrued as law breaking. At work I have almost gotten into big trouble trying to help others out. My preference still is to be a good person and do the right thing, but sometimes there is a high price for being righteous.

    OTOH, we all know too well that the only thing which prevents evil is good people doing nothing.

  12. #56
    Member Array OldLincoln's Avatar
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    Ask yourself why you carry a gun. Is it to be a semi-cop or to protect your family? When I started carrying I determined to educate myself on all aspects of it. I was fine in my innocence until reading about the ramifications of getting involved. The bottom line of ramifications is that I would not be protecting my family if I lost all our money, had my permit revoked, or went to prison because I tried to help somebody other than family. Many may think that can't happen if my actions were justified. Okay, lets say you're right, that I went to trial and was found not guilty. Well there goes another $50,000 in attorney fees - no wait, I don't have $50,000! So how does that protect my family?

    Somebody asked how one might feel to go home and tell your family you were a good witness, but didn't attempt to stop the bad guy. I'd feel very fortunate to be home and not in jail or the morgue. I would consider that better than coming home and telling them I cost them $50,000 by attempting to help someone.

    I'm in my late 60's and can tell you this country is very upside down on what's right and wrong. It should not cost to be a good citizen, but it does. QED!

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Many valid points have been made on both sides of the issue.
    I have only one comment.
    As it is my dime, "I" will decide if, when, where and how I spend it.
    What you do with your dime is up to you.

  14. #58
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    On the other hand...

    Many people choose not to get involved because they don't have the proper tools to effect change. Those tools could be the gun, the ability to use it proficiently, or the forethought of what could or might be. They do not posses the mindset.

    There are many people that carry a gun for self defense that do not have the Mindset. I would venture a guess that MOST people do not.

    Now a days its all about me,me,me, and if you will not help a fellow man in need because you have you have some how justified in your mind refusing to do so, then in my opinion you are as worthless as mammary glands on a boar hog.

    Yeah it might be dangerous, you might get killed. One thing I will not risk is giving an account of myself to the Creator on the of day for judgment for refusing to act when I was put there, at that moment of time, on that small space where we both occupy the same piece of planet and I had the means to help.

    Yeah, I know I'll catch a lot of flack from those that refuse to help. Fact of the matter is, I don't care. If you are too sorry to help when you can, then you're not a whole lot lot better than the thug doing what ever it is he is doing.
    LongRider likes this.
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  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I have put my butt on the line for others many times befor and if "I" decide so, I will do it again.

    I agree re the tools, mental or otherwise.
    LongRider likes this.

  16. #60
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    I have put my butt on the line for others many times befor and if "I" decide so, I will do it again.
    Of that I have no doubt.

    You sir, are a man of action. I seriously doubt that you would stand idly by when you knew you could be the difference.

    I hold no contemp for a man that cannot act or is smart enough to know his limitations. I do not honor a man that could be difference but chose to look the other way.

    It's just not the way I was raised.
    LongRider likes this.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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