Not my job

This is a discussion on Not my job within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Treo Bushido is just like the Ten Commandments, a wonderful philosophy of life that no one actually follows. I trust that you ...

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  1. #121
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Bushido is just like the Ten Commandments, a wonderful philosophy of life that no one actually follows.
    I trust that you are being completely honest. That this is absolutely true in your life experience. It would explain a lot your position, to me.

    It is also one of the saddest most pathetic things I have ever read on a forum. Not You Treo, do not think for an instant that I am directing this at you , I am not. But about the people around you. The people that have led you to believe that no one actually follows either of those codes of conduct.

    They are codes of conduct not philosophy, but with your experience you would not know that.

    My grand father lived by both those codes to the letter and he was not even a Christian. As did my father. I would like to think I have as well, but that is for others to judge. Not me. I do know, I believe in them and live up to them to the best of my abilities. Just as I know my wife and children live by those codes of conduct. So does every single one of my bro's and friends. It is why I think and act as I do. Bushido and the Ten Commandments, ARE NOT wonderful philosophies of life that no one actually follows.

    Rather Bushido and the Ten Commandments outline a wonderful way to live.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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  3. #122
    Member Array carguy2244's Avatar
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    I still say abandoning someone in danger is a disgrace.

    But you said it much nicer.

  4. #123
    Member Array sandman1212's Avatar
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    Wow, this is quite the heated topic. I, for one will let the situation dictate my actions. No two situations will present themselves the same. I can see both sides of the fence where I am standing and have been the "hero", but I knew the facts that led me in that direction. I have also been the "good witness" Though it is true that not all events end in litigation, in this day and age, alot do. Those arguing for being a good witness have a founded argument that they, more than likely have a responsibility to someone other than themselves and to forsake the safety and comfort of those other entities would be breaking an honor that they have promised, either through virtue of marriage or parenthood or some other guiding force. Those that would intervene in one way or another also have an honor to uphold. one of putting all life above their own. Each upbringing will provide a different code to live by. Just because someone will not act in the same manner that I would does not make it wrong, just different. We all have to live with the decisions that we make everyday.
    I will make an educated decision with every action I choose to take in each situation. If hindsight is 20/20, then so be it. I will sleep in that bed I have made.

    inaction is the only poor decision IMO.

    There is only one all knowing, and in the end he will be the judge as to whether we have done right or wrong.

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  5. #124
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    Lots talk about jumping in and helping a woman. What if you heard screams from a female coming from inside a parking garage. You walk in and this guy and girl are fighting, there's blood, it looks like a pretty bad scene. The guy is doing his best to gain physical control and the female is screaming help, help!!!!!!! he's beating me, he is going to kill me............... you jump in to help and the guys partner who you didn't see, who is also an under cover cop shoots you.

    You just never know the situation, even if the victim is a female.

    Look at all the times where off duty cops get shot by on duty cops.

    It really is too bad but in todays society helping out usually has negative outcomes.

  6. #125
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Bushido is just like the Ten Commandments, a wonderful philosophy of life that no one actually follows.
    Oh some do....I don't (but try) and you most certainly don't but don't think others aren't self sacrificing just because you aren't

    The Bushido and Ten Commandments are idealized and many fall short, but the point is to at least TRY to follow them to be on the path. If you are trying but still fail, GUESS WHAT? you are following the code pretty much, you obviously don't try.
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  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    What if you .............
    What if you read the OP ie post #1 & post #121 and stayed on topic? Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    many fall short, but the point is to at least TRY to follow them to be on the path. If you are trying but still fail, GUESS WHAT? you are following the code pretty much,
    Exactly, following a code of ethics is not about being perfect. Though there are some absolutes that one should never ever violate. The point is to do your best.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  8. #127
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
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    I agree with the sentiment that each situation must be weighed carefully. While I would not think to abandon someone in true need of aid, my first responsibility in life is to my family. My wife,my boy and my little girl depend on me being there for them. Every choice I make has them as the #1 consideration. They a constant in each equation that is presented to me. If I end up dead or in jail, I have FAILED them. "Walking the path" is great, and trying to do so puts us ahead of the narcissistic majority, but for me that path always leads back home to my family.

  9. #128
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Rather Bushido and the Ten Commandments outline a wonderful way to live.
    Not to derail anything here. But I think there's some confusion.

    If you study the Hagakure, then you probably are acquainted with Taoist thought as well as Zen Buddhism. Maybe some people respect that. It's almost mandatory if you're following the way of the warrior. But then, I get the sense that the 10 Commandments are being brought in as an afterthought. Sorta like, gee, if we're talking about a code of conduct, can't leave the Commandments out!

    But the Hagakure and the fabled tables of Moses are very different texts and they don't overlap. The Japanese imprisoned, killed, and drove the western missionaries out of their country because of the conflict between traditional budo and bujitsu and western dogma. So you can follow the classical warrior path if you want, but that's a complex and difficult philosophy. The Old testament Commandments about "no adultery" and "no banging the neighbor's wife" etc. are well and good, but they aren't a path or a Way of Life.

    George Carlin explained this pretty well. Like he says, it's a padded list. It's basically just "don't be bad," "don't lie." Not much more profound than Bill and Ted's "be excellent to one another." Which is a good policy! But in terms of a living philosophy, it's a Bazooka Joe comic when compared to something as detailed and all-encompassing as bushido.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  10. #129
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    So what you would prefer to hold everyone else’s actions to one prescribed course of action (I will hence forth call it a dogma)? In a situation that can have such a high level impact there are different ways to cut it and still come out with what is to that individual the right answer. Holding everyone to one dogma in complicated situations is great when its your dogma, but what about when it’s a dogma different then yours. Maybe its liberalism, maybe its respect to your fellow members of society, maybe its practicality, whatever it is it does not seem bad.
    Last edited by Bumper; August 12th, 2010 at 03:13 AM. Reason: Quote of deleted post removed.

  11. #130
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    So what you would prefer to hold everyone else’s actions to one prescribed course of action
    If there's one thing I'll never do in this life, it would be that. Just pointing out that tacking the 10 Commandments onto bushido is a categorical error. "I blend the two of them together to make my own code of living" is a valiant objective, but it's isn't meaningful. Exactly what concepts of the Hagakure does one map onto the Old testament? I'd like to see a cogent explanation of that that helps one to understand and execute deadly force when necessary.

    Rather, what I think is more likely, is that what we've seen expressed here is a statement to the effect of: "Gee those samurai were real bad-ass dudes and so they're cool. I'd like to be cool like that. I'm also a Christian. So whatever I say about samurai stuff, I gotta be sure and mention the Bible, so nobody thinks I'm down with that Asian mumbo-jumbo." And that's OK, but I thought it's better to be clear in the terminology.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    Not to derail anything here. But I think there's some confusion.

    If you study the Hagakure, then you probably are acquainted with Taoist thought as well as Zen Buddhism. Maybe some people respect that. It's almost mandatory if you're following the way of the warrior. But then, I get the sense that the 10 Commandments are being brought in as an afterthought. Sorta like, gee, if we're talking about a code of conduct, can't leave the Commandments out!

    But the Hagakure and the fabled tables of Moses are very different texts and they don't overlap. The Japanese imprisoned, killed, and drove the western missionaries out of their country because of the conflict between traditional budo and bujitsu and western dogma. So you can follow the classical warrior path if you want, but that's a complex and difficult philosophy. The Old testament Commandments about "no adultery" and "no banging the neighbor's wife" etc. are well and good, but they aren't a path or a Way of Life.

    George Carlin explained this pretty well. Like he says, it's a padded list. It's basically just "don't be bad," "don't lie." Not much more profound than Bill and Ted's "be excellent to one another." Which is a good policy! But in terms of a living philosophy, it's a Bazooka Joe comic when compared to something as detailed and all-encompassing as bushido.
    Oh yea, there are entire volumes of books on the warrior's path.
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  13. #132
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    I get the concept of helping our fellow man and I have done so in the past. What I don’t accept is the mindset that says I’m some kind of modern day Ronin because I happen to carry a gun. There are something like 10,000 CHP holders in El Paso County but only one of them got to be Jeanne Assam ( Who BTW is now changing her story about the shooting coincident W/ her new book coming out. Just sayin’ )

    Similarly, 99% of us will never be in a position to stop a jewelry store in the mall from being robbed or a woman from getting raped in a parking garage but, I believe, that there are a lot of people who carry guns hopping to be involved in such an event. And even if such an event never occurs they feel that their life has meaning because they took on the role of “protector of the flock”.

    I believe this is a very dangerous mindset for any gun owner to have because it may cause them to push an issue that doesn’t need to be pushed in their eagerness to become a “hero”.

    There used to be a group in Colorado Springs called “The Citizen’s CB Patrol” they claimed to be the neighborhood watch but what they really were was a bunch of vigilantes. They’d dress up in black BDUs and drive around the Southgate area of Co Springs in their old beater cars looking for “suspicious activity” to report to the police. Then’ they’d all go sit at the IHOP and tell each other what a bunch of bad asses they were. I laughed my ass off every time I saw them and that’s where some of this talk of living by “the code takes me. I truly and honestly believe that it’s just another form of self aggrandizement coupled W/ delusions of grandeur.

    I’m sorry if my assessment offends some of you but that’s where I am W/ it.

  14. #133
    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Oww shockwave I agree with you from my understanding of East Asian philosophy. I was not aiming that at you at all. It was about another comment that was deleted

  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by carguy2244 View Post
    I still say abandoning someone in danger is a disgrace.

    But you said it much nicer.
    I guess you're going to have to explain your experience in the matter...because there are consequences for every action, and I think it's been explained well enough for people to THINK before they ACT.

    So, in your 30+ years of experience of carrying (you know, finding evil everywhere and you take down the BGs with your firearm without consequence)--explain your in-depth, first-hand knowledge of the after-effects of a self-defense shooting where you did not have a duty to intervene. If you look back in this thread, I've asked this before...only to be ignored...which is fine by me.

    But for you to condemn those who choose the health, safety, and security of their family vs the unknown circumstances surrounding the events of a stranger , is why I take issue with this.

    BTW--we're not talking children or whatever scenario-based excuse you use to justify your opinion...I want to know what YOUR experience is..WHY? It goes to your credibility that you assume (because you "don't advertise)--here's your chance to share.
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  16. #135
    Member Array carguy2244's Avatar
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    Your continue to see the focus of this thread as my experiences, as opposed to morality and values.

    You divert attention from your indefensible position by putting words in my mouth. Did I say I find evil everywhere? Did I say I used a firearm with impunity? Did I suggest subordinating the safety of family for unknown circumstances? No, of course I didn't. There's a phrase in a previous post in this thread that described your m.o. to a tee - "ad hominem." I actually had to look up "ad hominem." It means defending your position by finding flaws in the character of your adversary. Well, trust me, I have plenty of flaws -but apathy isn't one of them - so if a stranger is in peril, I help.

    The thread is about intervening on behalf of a stranger. Many feel their own safety to be too big a sacrifice to intervene, so they run or use a cell phone, and you're clearly in that camp. Don't rationalize your position challenging my decisions - you'd leave a stranger in need to avoid jeopardizing your safety. You said it. Live with it.

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