Wierd situation in Grand Rapids tonight

This is a discussion on Wierd situation in Grand Rapids tonight within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't post here a lot but I do read a lot of the posts and I feel that I have learned a lot from ...

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Thread: Wierd situation in Grand Rapids tonight

  1. #1
    Member Array CZAD6's Avatar
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    Wierd situation in Grand Rapids tonight

    I don't post here a lot but I do read a lot of the posts and I feel that I have learned a lot from everyone else's scenarios.

    Today, I went to Grand Rapids to buy a vehicle. I picked up the truck (2000 Ford Ranger Super cab 4x4 btw) and my wife and I met up with her sister and boyfriend for a quick dinner. We decided to go to a little restaurant called Brandywine. I am carrying my CZ P-01 in a Hazel Leather holster at 4:00 as I do everyday. We parked across the street on the road. As we were crossing, three of us made it across but my wife's sister waited because a car was going very fast down the road in a Mercedes sedan probably going 40+. I look at the speed limit and it is 25 MPH. One of my biggest ticks is people acting like they own the road and don't care about the law. I looked at him and said you are going to fast. He had his window up and I didn't think he heard me. Oh well, it was a rude comment anyway. I shouldn't even bother. Sister crosses the road and we head towards the restaurant. We come around the corner and here comes Mercedes speeder. Mercedes speeder is about 45 years old, 6'4" and about 230, white, not well dressed, kind of scrubby. I am 24 years old, 6'0" and 165, dress in jeans and a t-shirt 90% of the time. I also have another guy same build with me. Mercedes speeder comes within 5 feet of me and says:

    Mercedes: "What did you say to me back there?"
    Me: (Took a step back) "I said you were going too fast, the limit is 25 MPH. You need to back away from me." (demanding tone)
    Mercedes: "I will beat your f'ing a-- right here, I wasn't speeding."
    Me: "You need to back away from us."
    He kept making similar comments, I kept demanding he back away. The whole time I am watching his hands. That is all I kept saying. I didn't want to turn my back to him so I slowly started backing away as I was saying that. He said he is going to bounce my f'ing head of the concrete as he takes another step toward me. I told him one last time he needs to back away from me. He finally turns around and walks away. We go and enjoy lunch after a brief conversation on how stupid that a guy actually stopped to tell me that after I told him he was going too fast. What a temper...

    So, my thinking that whole time was, this guy needs to get out of my boundaries. I kept going over what I would do if he pulled a knife, gun or any other weapon. I kept surveying pockets and any bulging. I checked for printing. He never reached for anything and I am thankful for that. Very thankful.

    What I learned: I called my other friend that CC's and OC's (I open carry here and there but my wife likes it better when I CC. Besides, I don't like standing out) He reassures me I did good. I told him that I could have not make that comment but sometimes I can't help it. I don't like people that put other peoples lives in danger because they are clowns in there vehicles. Besides the comment, I feel like I handled it an 8 out of 10. I should have gotten a plate and I should have told him I will call the cops if you are going to continue to threaten me like that.

    It pumped some adrenaline in me but I was still able to go into Brandywine and have a good meal and have fun. I got the Jerked Caribbean Chicken Sandwich, it was amazing

    Comments?

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  3. #2
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    I probably wouldn't have said anything because in today's world one just doesn't know who is going to shoot first and make conversation later. That said, I'd say that you gave yourself an excellent evaluation.
    I used to live and work in the GR area, and it has deteriorated quite a bit.
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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Best thing to do was just leave it be. Let him speed and get caught by the police. Your actions only caused a scene and would not stop him from speeding anyway. If possible you should have gotten his tag number and called the police.
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    'Concur w/Retsupt & Tally. I used to try to slow down folks driving too fast in my neighborhood. I stopped because I'm not a cop and realized that I was actually inserting myself into a situation which I don't have the credentials to manage. I consider myself fortunate that it didn't escalate past stare-downs and shout-downs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CZAD6 View Post
    I don't post here a lot but I do read a lot of the posts and I feel that I have learned a lot from everyone else's scenarios.

    One of my biggest ticks is people acting like they own the road and don't care about the law. I looked at him and said you are going to fast. He had his window up and I didn't think he heard me. Oh well, it was a rude comment anyway. I shouldn't even bother.
    Exactly....YOU (a stranger) are not going to change someone's behavior...get a plate #, call the cops...otherwise, suck it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by CZAD6 View Post
    What I learned: I called my other friend that CC's and OC's (I open carry here and there but my wife likes it better when I CC. Besides, I don't like standing out) He reassures me I did good. I told him that I could have not make that comment but sometimes I can't help it. I don't like people that put other peoples lives in danger because they are clowns in there vehicles.
    Gun on, pride off, mouth on safe.

    One could argue you instigated the event. Had you said nothing, Speedy wouldn't even know you existed. Instead, Speedy turned out to be a hot-head with a temper and attitude who probably shouldn't drive until he gets his anger issues addressed. So, you have someone who's threatened bodily harm...why didn't you follow up with a police report? Obviously this guy is a speeder...and it was enough for you to say something. Why not go the extra mile and call it in? And swear a complaint?

    IMO, I would have left it alone...there are idiots everywhere. And it's still not illegal to be stupid...nor is it legal to shoot stupid people doing stupid (or illegal) things.
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    Member Array CZAD6's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys. I definitely wish I didn't say anything in the first place. That much is true. I would say for sure there is an argument about me instigating. I will stop saying those things in the hopes that they will get caught and realize they need to slow down. The reason I didn't call and report it is because I didn't want this dork to take up any more of my time. I wanted to get on with my day. Looking back now, sure, I wish I would have gotten a plate number. Besides the fact I made a stupid comment, and I am sure everyone here wil agree I should't have made it, how does everyone think I handled the actual confrontation?

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    Hey, I make comments like that to idiots on the road at times, too. And, when I make mistakes on the road, I see plenty of comments made! We all make mistakes on the road (and in life...) some more often than others. The point here is he could have just let it go. Or come back to tell you not to jaywalk...

    While we should all heed the mantra "Gun on, pride off, mouth on safe;" we are all human beings, and make mistakes.

    As to how you handled the ensuing confrontation, I think you showed restraint, and handled it pretty well.

    I probably would have backed off as you did... once. I would have, as you did, asked him to back off... once.

    After the first time, I don't know what I would have done... I might have said "Relax, come on in, I'll buy you a beer..."

    Or, I might have put my hand near my weapon, altered my stance a bit, changed my tone entirely, and said... "BACK OFF, SIR! Go on about your business, and we will go about ours." But that would depend entirely on what I saw in the speeder.

    You did well to watch his hands and assess his person... He apparently showed no signs of real rage... Just a bit of "I'm better than you and bigger than you, too." You ascertained the truth, he was bigger than you... but all hat and no cattle. His retelling of the story at the gym with his " 'roided up" buddies will be different than your presentation here... But for him it was all about feeding his ego, anyway.

    When he rolled up the second time, I would like to think I would have gotten a plate number, too... But, by then you're looking at the side of his car and can't get one 'til he pulls away. When he does that you're (I'm, also) crashing from the adrenaline (even the small amount from this minor confrontation).. and not thinking clearly. You were not relaxed until AFTER you were able to joke about it in the restaurant...

    That's the problem with scenarios... You just can't get the real feel of the situation unless your in the skin of the one presenting it. If you gave yourself an 8 out of 10... you did okay... you passed, with an above average grade. And I think that's pretty good.

    If you yelled at him to SLOW DOWN while cursing at him, in the first place... well, then... that's not a B grade, that's a fail. If you just mouthed the words "you are going too fast." the B grade is fair.
    It could be worse.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I think you did well, other than the initial yelling.
    I have long since, quit yelling at idiots. I avoid, if at all possible, otherwise my communications are in braille, direct or air mail, if called for.

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    Member Array Night Flight's Avatar
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    Maybe the speeder was one of the Hollywood tough guys who isfilming that movie downtown now. They have streets blocked off and inconveniencing people who live and shop downtown. I guess it is fun for people to watch but must be bad for driving to work or parking in the area.
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    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
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    You mentioned watching for him to pull a gun, knife, or any other weapon. You also said he was 6'4", 230 lbs. What if he had simply tried to beat the tar out of you? Guys that size are entirely capable of killing you with their fists, even if there intention is to simply bust your lip. Would you have drawn if he continued to threaten you with a beating? This seems to be a grey area...are fists deadly weapons? Instances abound of people being beaten to death, both intentionally and unintentionally, so I'd have to say yes. Especially at that size.

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    Member Array crf3973's Avatar
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    When User Zach and Holly and I go fishing, he is infamous for yelling at drivers to slow down while using a hand flap like gesture to get them to see his disapproval with their speed ... I'll have to refer him to this thread...

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    Other than instigating the event by saying something to him you did pretty good.

    I probably would have taken up a defensive stance with my strong side turned away from him and been a little more forceful. The fact that he was only 5 feet away is a little bothersome. That is too close. Not much time for a reaction on your part if he makes some kind of threatening move.

    But you walked away and violence was avoided. That is a big win in my book.

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    Member Array Orange Boy's Avatar
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    I have gone over similar scenarios in my head. The thing is, if the fellow is a hothead and is bigger than me and he has shown no weapons, nor made any overt moves to grab, me I would feel unjustified in blading my body and putting my hand on my weapon etc. Plus I don't think I'd be willing to let the dope know I was armed. I would probably try to defuse the situation verbally and get the hell out of Dodge as quickly as possible. At this point it would just be a "sticks and stones" scenario.That said, my concern is that a big ill tempered guy like that just wants to fight. I'm 55 and of somewhat small build and not going to get my butt kicked for anyone. If he still approached and got in my face, I think I'd give Plan B, a good stream of SabreRed in the ol' peepers.

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    Member Array CZAD6's Avatar
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    Thanks again. When I did tell him to slow down I was using a normal tone. I wouldn't call it close to yelling at the guy. Anyway, if someone were to approach me like that in the future I will probably ask him to back off. If he fails, I will get my wife to call 911. Then stand with my strong side away. If I remember correctly, I was pretty square to him, maybe my right hip a touch back. I will continue to learn and train for situations like these.

    To answer the question about drawing if he comes at me with fists? Me, probably not. My gun is last line of defense against a weapon. I don't feel my life would have been in danger and therefore not justified to draw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crf3973 View Post
    When User Zach and Holly and I go fishing, he is infamous for yelling at drivers to slow down while using a hand flap like gesture to get them to see his disapproval with their speed ... I'll have to refer him to this thread...
    Yeah, us country boys used to deal with things like this: Say what you want to say, duke it out, have a couple of beers. In all seriousness, I sometimes doubt those farmers realize how fast they're going -- they drive that road every day in the middle of nowhere (no cops). Hopefully they'll see me and realize that we are there!

    As far as the OP's situation, perhaps a good time for pepperspray? This type of situation was used as an example several times in the OC thread crf3973 started a while back.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

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