Nowhere to run to...you have to engage!

This is a discussion on Nowhere to run to...you have to engage! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; After reading some of the responses in another posts about shooting at 25 yards I came up with this scenario. Yes it would be great ...

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Thread: Nowhere to run to...you have to engage!

  1. #1
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    Nowhere to run to...you have to engage!

    After reading some of the responses in another posts about shooting at 25 yards I came up with this scenario. Yes it would be great to say at that range I would just leave but what if you cant.

    You have been shopping at the local Walmart superstore. It is 11:30 pm so when you exit the parking lot is fairly empty. You have parked 5 spaces from the door, about 40 yards in distance.

    There are a few other cars spread throughout the parking lot. There are overhead lights that give fairly good illumination. Thirty yards away there are two cars parked side by side in opposite directions. You see three males outside the cars and possibly one inside. You file this info in your SA cabinet and continue to your car.

    As you put your items in the car you hear a single gunshot. As you turn toward the sound of the shot one of the three guys sees you and yells at you "What the hell are you looking at?". He then raises and then points a .22 caliber rifle at you. He fires a series of rounds striking the car and narrowly missing you so you know this guy can shoot.

    The remaining people all pile into the other car and take off leaving you with the lone shooter. As the car speeds off you see the form of an individual laying on the ground with a GSW to the head.
    You can dial 911 but this is a rural Walmart location so a response time of 10 or more minutes is possible. What are you going to do? You can attempt to run to the door but you will have to clear a 40 yard lateral distance before he can cut you down. You can attempt to get into the car and drive away but the gunfire has disabled your vehicle.

    You now have no choice but to engage before this guy either gets close enough or works his way around to get a better shot on you. With your EDC and more importantly your skill level what would you do. Your backstop is the store his backstop is the vacant parking lot with a small berm behind him. There are no other persons in the parking lot that you can see.

    What options can you come up with?
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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  3. #2
    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    Am I the only one that has never seen an empty walmart parking lot?
    As for the scenario: As soon as you hear the gunshot you should be moving for cover. You should be able to tell what direction it is coming from even if you don't see it happen. If at all possible getting out of the area immediately is the best option IMO. In the given scenario (car disabled), move to cover while drawing and try to get a shot on the BG. Once he is down try to give aid to the first guy that was shot, though with a gun shot to the head theres probably not much you can do. As always call 911 as soon as possible.
    Last edited by JD; August 12th, 2010 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Quoting deleted post.

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    30 yards, multiple shots and he missed with a rifle? just run straight at him bobbing and weaving and take it from him, lol
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    shot heard, drop everything, draw weapon and take cover because you already suspect where the shot came from beacuse of your earlier filing in the SA cabinet and vehicle hits from rounds fired. Dial 911 and keep online, continue cover and keep BG in your sights all the while you are collecting data for 911. A .22 may have punctured a tire, but your car is still possibly drivable, no other damage could have occured with a .22 that would make a vehicle undrivable even if only to put a distance between you and BG. If not, continue covering BG and wait for LE. BG is not sticking around with his friends gone and a body on the ground. If he approaches you, empty your clip. If he leaves, continue cover and try to get vehicle and perp info because you still have 911 on line then assess necessary aid to person on ground. Try to leave scene intact and don't contaminate any further. Don't touch anything laying on ground or in close proximity. If you can, try and keep others from the store approaching scene and follow instructions from 911 because you are still relaying info all this time.

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    true, even on rims you should be able to get some distance
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    OP, please clarify.....did he "narrowly miss you" on purpose just to prove a point or did he just miss?

    Either way, my first option is to get behind my car (truck in my case). Keep him in view at all times. If he takes a step toward you, fire.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Shots fired AT you, his buddies left him......Uhhh, time to get moving and engage. Seek cover (your car) and open the floodgates until HE thinks he's dead.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    After reading some of the responses in another posts about shooting at 25 yards I came up with this scenario. Yes it would be great to say at that range I would just leave but what if you cant.

    You have been shopping at the local Walmart superstore. It is 11:30 pm so when you exit the parking lot is fairly empty. You have parked 5 spaces from the door, about 40 yards in distance.

    There are a few other cars spread throughout the parking lot. There are overhead lights that give fairly good illumination. Thirty yards away there are two cars parked side by side in opposite directions. You see three males outside the cars and possibly one inside. You file this info in your SA cabinet and continue to your car.

    As you put your items in the car you hear a single gunshot. As you turn toward the sound of the shot one of the three guys sees you and yells at you "What the hell are you looking at?". He then raises and then points a .22 caliber rifle at you. He fires a series of rounds striking the car and narrowly missing you so you know this guy can shoot.

    The remaining people all pile into the other car and take off leaving you with the lone shooter. As the car speeds off you see the form of an individual laying on the ground with a GSW to the head.
    You can dial 911 but this is a rural Walmart location so a response time of 10 or more minutes is possible. What are you going to do? You can attempt to run to the door but you will have to clear a 40 yard lateral distance before he can cut you down. You can attempt to get into the car and drive away but the gunfire has disabled your vehicle.

    You now have no choice but to engage before this guy either gets close enough or works his way around to get a better shot on you. With your EDC and more importantly your skill level what would you do. Your backstop is the store his backstop is the vacant parking lot with a small berm behind him. There are no other persons in the parking lot that you can see.

    What options can you come up with?
    Draw my weapon (Glock 26 w/two spare mags, giving me 31 rounds), drop behind my car for cover, dial 911 and stay on the line for the duration if possible. I've obviously already attempted to disengage by driving away and have discovered my vehicle is non functional for whatever reasons. There is a 30 yard distance between myself and the BG, with a berm beyond my target (the BG), therefore hitting/injuring bystanders is taken out of the equation. Gunshots from the BG toward me, that miss, are peppering the WalMart store to my back, hopefully alerting employees/customers to also call 911 and take cover. Unfortunately I cannot be concerned with the person that has a GSW lying on the ground. My first concern is defending myself and my position until either LEO arrives, BG departs, or BG attempts to overrun my position. Based on layout presented, there are no cars near enough to me for the BG to work his way closer to me. If he decides to try to charge my position, then he is facing deliberate return fire from myself. From my position I can, if necessary, return fire to keep him from attempting an overrun. I can, if necessary, take my shots IF he exposes himself. I will not attempt to return to the store which is 40 yards away unless it is a last resort. I will hunker down from my position of cover and defend myself until responders arrive.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I don't consider somebody firing multiple shots from a rifle at 30 yards and missing as being able to shoot,My eyesight isn't as good as it once was but even when I had 20/20 vision I'm not gonna be able to tell at 30 yards where somebody was shot,but I can guarantee you if I got shot at,I'm grabbing cover and proning out as I draw my 1911 equipped with Big Dot nite sights and putting the dot COM then squeeze
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    The first option is to make it to the truck. The way I see it, you have an active shooter engaging you and the fight is on. Although the bleeding hearts here might argue with my response, my second option is to kill the sucker.

    I only carry my pistol as a compromise. Someone that engages a rifle shooter with a pistol is not the way to win. I will do that if I have to live, but IF I can make it to my truck my odds will increase.

    I will slide out my shotgun and unleash 4 rounds of 00 buck at his sorry excuse for a human being.If that doesn't work due to the range, the next 4 are slugs, and he may be surprised that the vehicle that he is using for cover isn't quite enough to stop the slugs. An added benefit to my setup is that I have another 6 on a side saddle.

    When he is flopping around like a head shot turkey screaming for Mama, I will reassess and check out the proximity of his rifle. If he is stupid enough to cling to it I will do what I have to do.

    If he is dead, I will put the shotgun back in its case, take off my Rambo bandanna and sit there until the Police arrive. Hopefully a good citizen like Treo will be there to call 911 for me as I'm liable to be a bit nervous by then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I don't consider somebody firing multiple shots from a rifle at 30 yards and missing as being able to shoot, ... but I can guarantee you if I got shot at,I'm grabbing cover and proning out as I draw my 1911 equipped with Big Dot nite sights and putting the dot COM then squeeze
    I concur that missing a human sized target from 30 yds with a rifle is pretty poor performance, especially with a relatively stationary target. I am not sure I would prone out in this scenario, however, because your only cover is a car/truck. Proning out puts all your vitals in a position where the BG could hit them without having to go through metal or glass. I would get behind the engine/tire, call 911, keep an eye on the perp and be prepared to stop his attack if he persists. Hitting him at 30 yards should not be a problem if he is not moving around. Hitting him if he closes the distance - his odds keep going down.
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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    He then raises and then points a .22 caliber rifle at you. He fires a series of rounds striking the car and narrowly missing you so you know this guy can shoot.

    I laugh because he missed me at 25 yards with a .22 and I think he can shoot. I laugh harder when I realize that a .22 round somehow disabled my vehicle. I then punch myself in the face and I wake up from this poor dream.

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    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
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    Hitting him if he closes the distance - his odds keep going down.
    So do yours.
    If he is closing on you with a rifle and shooting, what makes you think you'll be able to stand fast and shoot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandBob View Post
    So do yours.
    If he is closing on you with a rifle and shooting, what makes you think you'll be able to stand fast and shoot?
    If he is closing open ground and able to accurately aim a rifle, he is moving pretty slow. In either case, he is in open ground and I have cover and am stationary. My odds of getting an aimed shot off are better than his and he has already proven that he is a pretty poor shot. When I am behind my car/truck, he will have a head and sholders to aim at, I get his whole torso and head. I continue to like my odds more than his. In a perfect world, you are not at the Walmart and are not being shot at.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

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    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  16. #15
    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
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    Sounds good in theory.
    I learned a long time ago in some God forsaken desert in the Middle East, if some one is zeroing on you... its time to move.

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