So I went Orange at the mall today (critique?)

[CyanLite]

Sorry, but if those four continued to advance, weapon or not, I would have had to draw down on them. Being outnumbered 4-to-1 is a huge disparity of force.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[chiefjason]

Tell them not to come any closer.

If they do, I hope they like it spicy. Cause me or my wife will be marinating them in pepper sauce first. Second, will depend on them. I think pepper spray would be an easily defensible thing to use. And if they continued to engage, they are escalating things into dangerous territory.

[ctsketch]

I understand what you are saying now...

However your post which I responded to made a declarative statement that the thugs were NOT ARMED. That is a pretty dangerous assumption to make. I also never mentioned or even hinted that the defenders should have drawn their guns let alone shoot any of them. As a matter of fact, I made it quite clear that if they had drawn a gun when none of the aggressors had any weapons displayed would have been a bad move as the aggressors would have likely called the police on them.

As a matter of fact, I don't think anyone here recommended they should have drawn their guns and shot any of the aggressors over being heckled and chided, so I'm not sure where you got that thought. (I'll have to go back and re-read all the other posts, but if memory serves me, I don't think anyone recommended using their defensive firearms)

Gotcha... I think we understand each other now :p. I think I mis communicated

[3D]

hakuthedog you did a great job as all others have said . . . and your post has afforded me the chance to think such a scenario through before i experience it.

I am again reminded how very 'conditions based' my responses to any of these scenarios are. At 70 with no 'Shodan' in any form of __utsu my clear determination to not be a victim will guide my actions. I CCW because I am physically inadequate to take on 4 or 2 in H2H . . . besides this is not a 'fight' as Bark'n suggested, this is their bid to at least get "respectid" in public and at worst engage in violence.

[SigHawk]

[QUOTE=CyanLite;1733951]Be a good witness.

The multitude of folks in the mall would have been witnesses that "four guys were chasing this guy-and-girl couple who were screaming for help, and they kept chasing them and then all I heard were 16 gun shots."

QUOTE]

Bwahahahaha! All I heard was 16 gun shots! Classic!

[whitetrash]

To the OP, Good Job. Some people myself included " might let their mouth write a check that their butt could not cover".

[Reggie Dunlo]

My girlfriend obviously was offended and just basically said "excuse me, gross",

If your girlfriend would have kept her piehole shut you would not have a story to tell here. When you choose to carry a deadly weapon you take on a greater responsibilty to avoid confrontation, and subsequently any escalation. Why say anything in return? You know the guys who cat called her wanted a reaction and probably a confrontation. What did your girlfriend get out of the remark she made back? Some kind of personal satifaction? Why put yourself in a situation where you might need to use deadly force and possibly end up killing someone because you can't ignore a cat call? You did the right thing, your girlfreind did not. I'd have a talk with her.

[ccw9mm]

If your girlfriend would have kept her piehole shut you would not have a story to tell here. When you choose to carry a deadly weapon you take on a greater responsibilty to avoid confrontation, and subsequently any escalation.

It's not as though saying anything at all constitutes confrontation or escalation. Much like using a car horn when a dangerous situation arises, expressing simple surprise at having heard something disgusting come out of another's mouth is a common and not-unreasonable thing to do. The leveraging of the four aggressive males to intimidate and menace the pair was neither desired by them nor provoked by them. Those committing the assault did that all on there own.

Yes, there's a responsibility not to provoke, to avoid confrontation. Whether one is armed or not. But in a normal, everyday type situation, it's hard to claim a person has provoked anything when one party decides to pump up the volume as described here.

People need to stop this "diss" mode of understanding everyday speech, looks, reactions and stop mistaking them for actual active disrespecting of others. THAT type of thinking is what fuels so much of this crap on the streets.

[Guantes]

Agreed, To some of the type "fellows" mentioned in the op, anything is a diss. A comment, "pinning" them, not looking at them, etc. It is all just an excuse.

[Reggie Dunlo]

perhaps you misunderstood. Keeping her mouth shut should have been her instinctive reaction. You condition yourself to not have gut reactions. Until you do, situations like will happen again.

[ZombieShoot]

I was thinking if he did engage, I could have fought back without a weapon, but the other three guys is what worried me.

Not to be rude but this is wrong. Remember if you're carrying and you go hand to hand with someone you ARE fighting with a weapon. Your gun.

Even if you don't intend to use the gun it's there and you've got to account for it.

[Jcabin]

"cleared to engange?", another post that scares me some people carry guns. What in your right mind would ever make you think it would be justifiable to draw on some idiot screaming at you in the middle of a mall?
This is why people need to get hand to hand training or carry less lethal, like pepper spray. The gun is not the ONLY tool in your tool box, and if you try using a hammer to saw some lumber you will find yourself in a pretty bad place.

ETA: You and your girlfriend don't deserve to be harassed or assaulted for making a retaliatory remark to the crude garbage those compadres were spouting, but sometimes it's SMARTER just to keep your mouth shut. No need to end up in jail because someone called your girlfriend fat, or your mom a prostitute.

[Jcabin]

Not to be rude but this is wrong. Remember if you're carrying and you go hand to hand with someone you ARE fighting with a weapon. Your gun.

Even if you don't intend to use the gun it's there and you've got to account for it.

Sorry, I don't buy that arguement. It's straight up garbage. By this theory every time you get into a fight it becomes a lethal encounter because you have a gun and "could be disarmed".

[Reggie Dunlo]

Sorry, I don't buy that arguement. It's straight up garbage. By this theory every time you get into a fight it becomes a lethal encounter because you have a gun and "could be disarmed".

That`s not what was meant. If you have a deadly weapon you are responsible for it regardless of who uses it. I have a CHL in 2 states & both covered this in the application process. Maybe things are different in your state?

[ZombieShoot]

Sorry, I don't buy that arguement. It's straight up garbage. By this theory every time you get into a fight it becomes a lethal encounter because you have a gun and "could be disarmed".

You don't understand the point.

The OP said he could have fought back without a weapon but you can't think like that when you are carrying a gun. If you get into a physical fight you've got to remember that gun is there on your hip (or where else it might be). This can restrict you on how you fight as you need to keep control over the weapon.

And yes it can become instantly a life and death situation if the BG during the fight realizes there is a gun there and the fight progresses into a fight over the gun. This is something to consider as well since it will be looked at as who instigated the fight. (In this case it's obvious it wasn't the OP)