So I went Orange at the mall today (critique?) - Page 5

So I went Orange at the mall today (critique?)

This is a discussion on So I went Orange at the mall today (critique?) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Jcabin "cleared to engange?", another post that scares me some people carry guns. What in your right mind would ever make you ...

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Thread: So I went Orange at the mall today (critique?)

  1. #61
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    "cleared to engange?", another post that scares me some people carry guns. What in your right mind would ever make you think it would be justifiable to draw on some idiot screaming at you in the middle of a mall?
    He doesn't think it which is why he said, "My thought was...if he approached, legally would I be cleared to "engage"? My number one thought is NO."

    Clearly he's saying he wouldn't be justified in such a situation.

    Perhaps you missed it......

    This is why people need to get hand to hand training or carry less lethal, like pepper spray. The gun is not the ONLY tool in your tool box, and if you try using a hammer to saw some lumber you will find yourself in a pretty bad place.
    He did mention he knows some martial arts but he's facing the possibility of four guys fighting him. (one starting it and the other three backing up)

    If he pepper sprayed the guy he might end up facing the other three. Then what?

    And he did use a tool from the box. He used verbal tools.

    ETA: You and your girlfriend don't deserve to be harassed or assaulted for making a retaliatory remark to the crude garbage those compadres were spouting, but sometimes it's SMARTER just to keep your mouth shut. No need to end up in jail because someone called your girlfriend fat, or your mom a prostitute.
    Except he didn't do anything. It was his girlfriend who made the comment and sometimes "poop" happens. Someone says or does something and you react to it. Later you might think, "damn that was a dumb thing to do" but you just gotta roll with it when it happens.


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlo View Post
    perhaps you misunderstood. Keeping her mouth shut should have been her instinctive reaction. You condition yourself to not have gut reactions. Until you do, situations like will happen again.
    Didn't misunderstand a thing: SHE didn't cause anything, by having a personal reaction to a gross/disgusting comment.

    Come on, people. It's not as though she was lashing out at one of the hoods, or challenging him, or disrespecting his mother, or aiming anything in his direction. And yet, hoods being what they are, they took the mere fact she reacted as an excuse to assault them. Pure and simple, THEY were the cause of the problem, not some simple exclamation that escaped her lips when hearing one of the hoods say something disgusting. Her reaction was personal and not directed at anyone. The reaction was about as benign as a quick glance in the direction of the hoods, and it's entirely likely the cretins would have also taken that as an excuse to assault them. Let's keep our eye on the ball. The problem was the criminals, not anything she/he said.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    Overall, you did alright. bottomline is you walked away, retreated to a public location with lots of witness's and most importantly, kept your cool. By the sounds of it, had they decided to take to the next level, there is a clear disproportion of force, six (what I could assume are) gangmembers v. you and your gal. And they would be very displeased to find out what you had in store for them.

  4. #64
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlo View Post
    That`s not what was meant. If you have a deadly weapon you are responsible for it regardless of who uses it. I have a CHL in 2 states & both covered this in the application process. Maybe things are different in your state?
    What is it your issuing states covered? I'm saying that some people who carry a gun think they are forced to shoot if they should get into a fight because they have a gun and could be disarmed. I'm not saying certain tactics shouldn't be employed because oen is carrying a gun, of course. You need to ensure that gun isn't taken away from you, but for the majority of CC'ers that's a non issue if the gun is concealed well and they have a high quality retentive holster. The best way to avoid this issue is to do everything reasonably possible to stop a physical confrontation. If that means looking like a coward, so be it.

  5. #65
    New Member Array Reggie Dunlo's Avatar
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    jcabin - I think we are saying the same thing. ccw9mm - read your signature line. her brain could have prevented the escalation if she had it engaged before she put her mouth in drive. spewing back an insult is ok on an elemtery school playground, not from an adult with a deadly weapon. it`s over & neither one of us was there so all we can do is offer up our opions. i`ll let it go at that.

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    Don't rule out contacting law enforcement even after the incident has ended. If I don't know that this activity is happening and where then I cannot respond and take appropiate action. You can give me PC to do a stop and check ID's and run names for warrants. People acting in a disorderly manner in a public place need to be delt with by law enforcement.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Didn't misunderstand a thing: SHE didn't cause anything, by having a personal reaction to a gross/disgusting comment.

    Come on, people. It's not as though she was lashing out at one of the hoods, or challenging him, or disrespecting his mother, or aiming anything in his direction. And yet, hoods being what they are, they took the mere fact she reacted as an excuse to assault them. Pure and simple, THEY were the cause of the problem, not some simple exclamation that escaped her lips when hearing one of the hoods say something disgusting. Her reaction was personal and not directed at anyone. The reaction was about as benign as a quick glance in the direction of the hoods, and it's entirely likely the cretins would have also taken that as an excuse to assault them. Let's keep our eye on the ball. The problem was the criminals, not anything she/he said.
    +1. My thoughts exactly! As a matter of fact I was in the middle of posting those sentiments exactly at about 1:30 am when we lost power from a storm and the wireless router went down.

    No need to redo the post now since you articulated the point excellently!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #68
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    Don't rule out contacting law enforcement even after the incident has ended. If I don't know that this activity is happening and where then I cannot respond and take appropiate action. You can give me PC to do a stop and check ID's and run names for warrants. People acting in a disorderly manner in a public place need to be delt with by law enforcement.
    uh wouldn't you need more than two people claiming something happened? For example, my girlfriend and I could call 911 and report that we were nearly assaulted by some hoods at X location, all while sitting by the window drinking a beer and having a good laugh watching it all go down. When in fact we never had any contact with those hoods, and they are going to deny anything happened, because nothing really did happen, but to you, criminals always lie.

  9. #69
    Member Array gruntingfrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    uh wouldn't you need more than two people claiming something happened? For example, my girlfriend and I could call 911 and report that we were nearly assaulted by some hoods at X location, all while sitting by the window drinking a beer and having a good laugh watching it all go down. When in fact we never had any contact with those hoods, and they are going to deny anything happened, because nothing really did happen, but to you, criminals always lie.
    How do you think most crimes are reported? "Four guys that look like X tried to assault me" is probable cause for a police officer to stop and talk to those who fit the description. Yes, you could file a false police report and you would go to jail when it's discovered; and don't think they won't be able to figure it out.

    As a matter of fact I just saw an episode of Cops tonight where a girl was arrested for filing a false police report. The police caught a couple of inconsistencies in her story and the guy she accused just kept saying, "I have no idea what you're talking about." Even though the guy looked like a "hood," he sounded more credible to the officers. Don't assume the police automatically think that all "hoods" are guilty.
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  10. #70
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gruntingfrog View Post
    How do you think most crimes are reported? "Four guys that look like X tried to assault me" is probable cause for a police officer to stop and talk to those who fit the description. Yes, you could file a false police report and you would go to jail when it's discovered; and don't think they won't be able to figure it out.

    As a matter of fact I just saw an episode of Cops tonight where a girl was arrested for filing a false police report. The police caught a couple of inconsistencies in her story and the guy she accused just kept saying, "I have no idea what you're talking about." Even though the guy looked like a "hood," he sounded more credible to the officers. Don't assume the police automatically think that all "hoods" are guilty.
    Unfortunately you're wrong friend. Without more evidence than someone making a call, there is no probable cause. I have no idea where you got that from.

  11. #71
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    The vast majority of our calls come in via landline. The dispatcher does not know the intentions of the person on the other end of the line. Some calls are unfounded and some are not. The responding officer makes the determination upon arrival what he has or does not have as far as PC. I would rather respond to a call and find out that there is no cause for further police action then to not be called and have to respond to a violent encounter after the fact and pick up the pieces.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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  12. #72
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Just a pack "O" punks! Laugh at um and move on.... If they follow you, call the cops and ask a shop owner to call mall security. If you feel like your life or the life of a family member is at risk, then get ready to defend your family with malice. Young punks grow into older punks, but they all react to Law enforcement pretty much the same way. If the call to mall security and or to 911 didn't detour the idiots/idiot then it's time to defend yourself. My suggestion would be to always carry a less than lethal option along with your main defense tool. I carry the Kimber Pepper blaster for just something along the lines of this right here. Not every situation will require lethal force, but I'd blast that rascal in the face with some heat in a heartbeat, if he was so stupid he couldn't heed my warning. YMMV

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

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  13. #73
    Member Array hakuthedog's Avatar
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    Thanks again everyone for the inputs!

    I did talk with the gf, and now that we got over everything from our trip, we do agree with you all on that she shouldn't have responded. It disgusts us (and everyone here) how 'hoods' act and talk so disrespectfully towards people. So after our talk and discussion on everyones input, we both will try to change on not responding to things such as this. It just caught us off guard because she wasn't dressed up or wearing anything revealing (literally a normal tshirt and jeans; nothing too tight). So we didn't see why they went after us/her, besides being dbags.

    She has a spitfire for OC spray, but I am trying to find something I could carry as well. I was looking at the Kimber Guardian, but that kind of turned me away due to it only having two shots. I hope that would be enough, but you never know.

    Any recommendations as far as us guys carrying OC spray? The cylinder shapes usually make it difficult to carry in the pockets.

  14. #74
    TVJ
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    Repeat from Guantes

    From Guantes on the first page of this thread............



    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I think you did ok.
    Some of these little cliques/groups wander around all day trying to intimidate and challenge people. Your g/fs comment gave them an excuse to push it (if she had said nothing they probably would have used something else) with you and your refusal to engage, allowed them to regain face by your "wussing out" - the right thing to do. They will usually, but not always, back off if they feel that they have backed you down.

    I would not physically engage them, too many shanks. I would back off until I could not any more, then draw down on them with some appropriate verbage. They would still shout insults as they backed off and left, that's the nature of things. The above is not a suggestion, just what I would do after working with them for years.



    Spot on. Everything.

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